Teaching Your Dog Rocket Recall
If you are ever faced with an emergency, are you certain you could call your dog’s name and he or she will instantly return to your side? That is an essential and trainable skill – that can save lives. Lisa Waggoner is an all-positive dog trainer who created a method called Rocket Recall where a dog instantly and happily rushes back to you the moment they hear that cue. She explains why this training is based on a sense of safety and trust, and a deep bond between you and your dog, so that they are motivated to come to you. Find out the major challenges and mistakes and how you can learn to use these joy-affirming methods so you and your dog can feel safe in each other’s presence.
Listen to Episode #52 Now:
BIO:
Lisa and Brad Waggoner are the founders of Cold Nose College, a labor of love that has blossomed into world-renowned learning opportunities for both professional dog trainers and dog owners. The mission of Cold Nose College is keeping dogs in their forever homes by fostering trust and understanding for both ends of the leash.
Lisa and Brad are well-known for their clear, compassionate, and engaging communication skills. They are dedicated to helping dogs and their people form a strong bond and enjoy their lives together whether it’s by coaching and mentoring professional trainers or self-paced, on-demand courses. “Where cold noses meet warm hearts,” is an exact description of their approach. You will see Brad and Lisa’s warmth and care in their interactions with both species.
Brad and Lisa are both Certified Professional Dog Trainers—Knowledge Assessed, and both faculty members of the prestigious Victoria Stilwell Dog Training and Behavior Academy. In addition, Lisa is a Certified Trainer of the Pat Miller Dog Training and Behavior Academy and a Certified Separation Anxiety Trainer, also co-instructing that program with founder Malena DeMartini in its early years. Brad is a Karen Pryor Academy Certified Training Partner, a Fear Free Certified Trainer, and has TAGteach primary certification through TAGteach International. TAGteach is an innovative, positive program for teaching humans. Training dogs means teaching people as well, and Lisa and Brad are exemplary in both their credentials and their devotion to helping both the dog and human end of the leash.
Transcript:
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Announcer: This is Pet Life Radio.
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Announcer: Let's talk pets.
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Announcer: welcome to The Human-Animal Connection Show, where we believe we can communicate with all animals.
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Announcer: Join us as we explore the 33 principles and healing methods of The Human-Animal Connection.
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Announcer: As animal lovers, we know that you share our commitment to making the world a kinder place for all creatures.
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Announcer: Together, let's embrace the transformative healing power of The Human-Animal Connection.
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Genie Joseph: Hi, everyone.
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Genie Joseph: It's Jeanne Joseph from The Human-Animal Connection, and I'm so glad you've joined us for this podcast.
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Genie Joseph: I'm going to be speaking with a good new friend.
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Genie Joseph: I've recently met her, and her name is Lisa Waggoner.
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Genie Joseph: And she is the head, I guess the creator and founder of Cold Nose College.
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Genie Joseph: And if you'd like to learn more about her, that's coldnosecollege.com.
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Genie Joseph: And she has been a trainer, extraordinaire for a very long time.
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Genie Joseph: I even heard about you when I lived in Hawaii.
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Lisa Waggoner: Is she really Genie?
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Genie Joseph: Yes, my mentor, because when I was in my dog training program, which I had to do because we were doing a prison dog program, she mentioned you, that you had a wonderful online program.
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Genie Joseph: So anyway, Maria Salarchi.
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Genie Joseph: I don't know if you remember her, but.
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Lisa Waggoner: Oh, yeah, the name is familiar.
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Genie Joseph: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Genie Joseph: So great.
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Genie Joseph: And one of the things that we're going to be talking about today is Lisa's wonderful program, the Original Rocket Recall protocol.
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Genie Joseph: And this is incredibly important for any dog person who shares their life with a dog, the ability to get your dog to come back to you when you need them to, especially in an emergency situation or anything that's urgent.
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Genie Joseph: And it's not always easy, as many dog people will tell you.
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Genie Joseph: It's not automatic.
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Genie Joseph: It's not so easy.
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Genie Joseph: So we're going to learn a little bit about how we can get the peace of mind of knowing that the dog will return to us when we need them to and discover the important training tools that will help us reach this goal.
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Genie Joseph: So, Lisa, welcome to the show.
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Lisa Waggoner: Thank you so much.
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Lisa Waggoner: And thanks for having me here.
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Lisa Waggoner: I'm thrilled to chat with you about Recall and, you know, anything else of dogs.
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Lisa Waggoner: Yeah, we have five hours, right?
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Genie Joseph: Yeah, so tell us just briefly about your training program, and then we're going to spend the time talking about Recall.
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Lisa Waggoner: So great.
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Lisa Waggoner: Yeah, thank you.
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Lisa Waggoner: So the training that we do is all positive reinforcement.
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Lisa Waggoner: So we are reinforcing behaviors that we like, so we get more of them and managing with enrichment or other tools, you know, to prevent those unwanted behaviors from being reinforced.
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Lisa Waggoner: It was a death of a dog that propelled me into training.
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Lisa Waggoner: And a couple of dogs later, I realized at a play group that when a client said, how did you call her away from the other dogs playing to you those multiple times during the session?
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Lisa Waggoner: So it's easy, you train it.
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Lisa Waggoner: And I thought, well, how do I train it, right?
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Lisa Waggoner: I've been successful teaching it, how do I train it?
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Lisa Waggoner: So I started writing out the protocol, what we do, how we do.
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Lisa Waggoner: If you love animals and if you love your dogs, don't we all aspire to have a deep, trusting relationship?
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Lisa Waggoner: So if you create a bond with your dog or any animal that's under your roof, it strengthens communication between you, it develops trust between you.
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Lisa Waggoner: What happens with trust?
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Lisa Waggoner: If we trust someone and we have a bond with them, then we want to be with one another.
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Lisa Waggoner: And so, yay, that's wonderful for every part of our life with our dogs.
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Lisa Waggoner: But if you want your dog to come back to you, especially in an emergency situation, they must trust you in order to be the kind, benevolent, wonderful person you are when they return to you and not worry about what other consequences may be.
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Lisa Waggoner: So, use the positive reinforcement, reinforcing training steps along the way, is going to help build that bond, not only while you're training, but it's a longer lasting bond.
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Lisa Waggoner: You can revitalize your relationship by training and recalling this way, and you might just save your dog's life.
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Genie Joseph: Excellent.
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Genie Joseph: So, we're not just looking at recall as a kind of blind obedience.
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Genie Joseph: I don't know if I could use that word, but we're looking at it as really a way of calibrating and perfecting and deepening our relationship.
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Lisa Waggoner: Absolutely.
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Lisa Waggoner: I want my dog, when I call, I train my dog, and the protocol helps people understand how to train their dog to have an immediate turn on the dime rocket recall.
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Lisa Waggoner: So that you practice it, you've done all the training steps, you've reinforced it so heavily that when you do call, that dog doesn't have to think about what to do.
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Lisa Waggoner: It becomes automatic.
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Lisa Waggoner: And then they turn on a dime and start running to you with glee on their face.
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Genie Joseph: Yes.
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Lisa Waggoner: Because of what's going to happen when they get to you, you become the reinforcer.
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Genie Joseph: Right.
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Genie Joseph: So the reward is connection.
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Lisa Waggoner: Absolutely.
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Lisa Waggoner: Yeah.
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Lisa Waggoner: We perfect the human-animal connection.
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Lisa Waggoner: How spot on can that be?
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Genie Joseph: Exactly right.
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Genie Joseph: Yeah.
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Genie Joseph: So it's a very different model that we're talking about here than say, maybe our grandparents were taught about using fear or dominance to control dogs, which may have worked in the short term, but I believe damaged the bond.
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Lisa Waggoner: Absolutely.
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Lisa Waggoner: I mean, we want our dogs.
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Lisa Waggoner: Everything in my book and all the training we do focuses on keeping the dog and the client feeling physically and emotionally safe during the learning process.
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Lisa Waggoner: Because none of us can learn if we don't feel safe.
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Genie Joseph: Right.
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Lisa Waggoner: So creating a safe environment and then breaking training down into small enough achievable steps sets the dog and the client up for success.
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Genie Joseph: Well, that's such an important thing you just said that I want to drill down a little bit into it, because I see that when I work with the shelter dogs, that if there isn't a sense of safety, you can forget about teaching anything.
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Genie Joseph: So and of course, shelters are very stressful environment.
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Genie Joseph: But what do you do that contributes to safety and what should people avoid that takes away from safety?
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Lisa Waggoner: So that's a good question.
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Lisa Waggoner: So first of all, as you mentioned, what I call old fashioned training, that old obedience type of training that our grandparents may have used.
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Lisa Waggoner: I'm using food to reinforce and I am moving my body in such a way to not cause stress to the dog.
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Lisa Waggoner: So I'm using training techniques that increase buy-in and the dog enjoys the process.
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Lisa Waggoner: And I'm giving the dog, I'm meeting the dog's needs with whatever those may be at the moment.
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Lisa Waggoner: So I'm reading dog body language.
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Lisa Waggoner: It's really awesome for guardians to gain a little bit of understanding about how dogs display, how they show through their body what they're feeling.
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Lisa Waggoner: We don't know for sure, but over the decades, we've studied dogs and understand that a tuck tail means the dog is uncomfortable.
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Lisa Waggoner: So I'm watching the dog to make sure that anything I'm doing, anything the client is doing, interacting with the dog, creates comfort for the dog versus stress.
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Lisa Waggoner: Okay.
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Lisa Waggoner: It can be as simple as I'm not stepping into a dog, into their space.
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Lisa Waggoner: I'm inviting them to come to me.
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Genie Joseph: Exactly right.
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Genie Joseph: Yeah, we let them come towards you.
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Genie Joseph: And we're always observing if we do something, what is the dog's response to it?
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Genie Joseph: Are they showing us signs that they feel more safe and trusting or less safe and trusting?
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Genie Joseph: And it could be just as simple as you were flapping your hands, just to make a point when you're talking to another person in the room.
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Genie Joseph: But that dog is like, oh my God, what is that?
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Genie Joseph: What I have to do?
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Genie Joseph: What does it mean?
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Genie Joseph: Is this good?
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Genie Joseph: Is this bad?
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Lisa Waggoner: What's important to understand, if you understand learning theory and if you don't, classical conditioning, we're all as animals, human or dog, we're developing emotional feelings about any situation we're in.
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Lisa Waggoner: We want to help our dogs while we're training with positive reinforcement, reinforcing behaviors we like.
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Lisa Waggoner: We want them to have that wonderful feeling of, oh, I feel safe, this is fun.
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Lisa Waggoner: And if the dog ever, maybe we train a little bit too long, if they give us body language that says, you know, I think I'm done now, we stop.
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Lisa Waggoner: It's giving the animal choice during the training process.
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Lisa Waggoner: Just because I want to train, doesn't mean my dog wants to train that day.
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Genie Joseph: Yeah, exactly.
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Genie Joseph: And just like us, they could have good days, bad days, mood-wise or their tummy hurts or whatever it is, right?
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Genie Joseph: That just like we do, right?
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Genie Joseph: So it's really so important that we're in sync and the way ballroom dancers are in sync.
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Genie Joseph: They're paying attention to each other's.
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Lisa Waggoner: Perfect.
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Lisa Waggoner: And I love that because I say all the time, if Brad, my husband is a professional dog trainer too, and if he has worked with the dog, one of our dogs that I train more frequently, then we always say it's a different dance partner.
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Lisa Waggoner: So he moves a little bit different.
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Lisa Waggoner: He might just deliver his food a little bit differently, but so it's not quite the same.
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Lisa Waggoner: So it is very much like being in a dance team, being in sync.
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Genie Joseph: Yeah, that's excellent.
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Genie Joseph: Okay.
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Genie Joseph: So what is one of the biggest speed bumps people might experience when they're working on recall?
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Lisa Waggoner: I'm going to give you two.
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Lisa Waggoner: The first one is not realizing it's a learned behavior, just like anything we teach our dogs.
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Genie Joseph: That is so important because people think, I call my dog, why doesn't he come?
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Genie Joseph: And sometimes he comes and sometimes he doesn't.
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Genie Joseph: But they assume that it's going to be natural, just like they assume fetch is going to be natural.
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Genie Joseph: And fetch isn't natural to all dogs.
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Lisa Waggoner: And most people use the word come, and dogs don't come with an English software package installed.
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Genie Joseph: Yeah.
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Lisa Waggoner: So they don't know what that word means.
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Lisa Waggoner: So just realizing, you know, realizing it's a learned behavior.
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Lisa Waggoner: Then secondly, when the dog gains some skill at home, not understanding how to add in distractions in miniscule levels, progressive, systematic way of adding in those distractions.
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Lisa Waggoner: And that's what my book does, it does is break down those steps.
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Lisa Waggoner: They're focused and attention exercises that are very achievable, very, very close.
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Lisa Waggoner: We learn to do things inside first before we ever take it outside.
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Lisa Waggoner: In certain parts of the year, it's systematic and progressive.
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Lisa Waggoner: So what most people do is train it well in their yard, and they have a nice off-leash, somewhat long distance, maybe from the back of your yard to your front, and expect that to work at the park with so many distractions.
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Lisa Waggoner: You can get there, but you just have to set your dog up for success by training in those increments.
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Lisa Waggoner: And if your dog ever isn't successful, it's only because the dog hasn't learned it yet.
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Lisa Waggoner: You just rarely go back to where you were last successful in training and start again.
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Genie Joseph: Yeah, I think that's a common mistake, is that people assume that the dog can generalize understanding of the word come in the backyard means that they're going to understand come in the parking lot or on a path, in the woods or something.
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Genie Joseph: And that's not necessarily so.
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Genie Joseph: And so what you're talking about.
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Lisa Waggoner: Then the bond, Jeannie, the relationship.
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Lisa Waggoner: Brad and I have been married almost 40 years.
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Lisa Waggoner: We have really good, loving, strong bond and relationship.
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Lisa Waggoner: And if we're at a big party with people all over the place, talking and chatting, and I'm engaged with someone listening to a conversation, then my goodness, he calls, he says, Hey, Lisa, I'm probably going to hear his voice.
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Lisa Waggoner: What?
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Lisa Waggoner: If that's a stranger, a stranger's voice that might say, Hey, Lisa, I may not even hear it.
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Genie Joseph: Right.
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Lisa Waggoner: So the strength of that bond and the time spent together, you know, enhances not only trust, but communication and hearing.
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Genie Joseph: Yes, exactly right.
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Genie Joseph: So let's tell us a little bit about the tools that you use when you're training Recall.
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Genie Joseph: Can you kind of walk us through?
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Genie Joseph: I know it's a bigger program, but maybe just give us a little taste.
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Lisa Waggoner: Yeah, so the tools that I use are a front clip harness or any kind of harness, really.
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Lisa Waggoner: It can be back clip or front clip, but a harness, because if the dog pulls at all, I don't want to have the leash on a collar because it could damage their esophagus or their trachea.
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Lisa Waggoner: So a harness, a six foot leash and a long line.
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Lisa Waggoner: So a long line is really just a longer leash and something that's 15 feet or longer.
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Lisa Waggoner: You're going to be using the long line when you start training more distance.
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Lisa Waggoner: So you're moving from one tool, the next, the six foot leash to the longer line before you ever think about off leash work.
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Lisa Waggoner: Because we want to prevent while we're training the behavior we want the dog returning to us, we want to prevent the unwanted behavior of running off after a squirrel.
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Lisa Waggoner: So having your dog on leash while you're training, is that management tool.
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Lisa Waggoner: It keeps the dog from running off after things and getting reinforced by that chase, that squirrel, that other dog.
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Genie Joseph: So, you know, a lot of what you're talking about is really focusing the dog's attention, you know, so that they are, you know, they're on that leash.
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Genie Joseph: They know that there's a context of their, you know, energy exchange versus if they're off leash and that squirrel comes and they're just going to run and bolt and follow that.
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Lisa Waggoner: Yeah, and then we eventually get to off-leash work, you know, but we want to achieve success first.
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Lisa Waggoner: We want to crawl before we, you know, walk and walk before we fly.
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Genie Joseph: Right.
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Genie Joseph: Excellent.
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Genie Joseph: Okay.
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Genie Joseph: Well, this is very fun.
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Genie Joseph: When we come back, we'll talk a little bit more about the Rocket Recall and some of the fun stories you might have of training, whether they would recall or in other areas.
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Genie Joseph: We're going to take just a short little break.
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Genie Joseph: You're listening to the Human-Animal Podcast.
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Announcer: We'll be right back.
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Announcer: Hey, friends.
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Announcer: If you like what you're hearing and want to learn more, check out Dr.
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Announcer: Joseph's book, The Human-Animal Connection, Deepening Relationships with Animals and Ourselves.
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Announcer: Or visit the website, thehumananimalconnection.org, to book an online consultation.
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00:16:04.940 --> 00:16:15.340
Announcer: Let's Talk Pets on petliferadio.com welcome back to The Human-Animal Connection.
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Genie Joseph: I'm speaking with Lisa Waggoner, and she is the owner of Cold Nose College Online Training.
00:16:21.800 --> 00:16:26.560
Genie Joseph: And her program, Original Rocket Recall, is what we've been talking about.
00:16:26.560 --> 00:16:32.680
Genie Joseph: So can you tell us a story of maybe a client that you were working with that had some challenges in this area and how you worked with her?
00:16:32.680 --> 00:16:33.660
Lisa Waggoner: Absolutely.
00:16:33.660 --> 00:16:34.700
Lisa Waggoner: They're so fun.
00:16:34.700 --> 00:16:40.400
Lisa Waggoner: First of all, it's in our classes, we don't have a brick and mortar training facility any longer than what we did.
00:16:40.400 --> 00:16:43.240
Lisa Waggoner: It was so fun to hear the laughter in class.
00:16:43.240 --> 00:16:44.200
Lisa Waggoner: Nobody was serious.
00:16:44.200 --> 00:16:45.240
Lisa Waggoner: Everyone was having fun.
00:16:45.980 --> 00:16:51.300
Lisa Waggoner: So we had a client who came and wanted to take our Rocket Recall class.
00:16:51.300 --> 00:17:01.240
Lisa Waggoner: She had what she felt was a very well-trained dog, but her friend had told her about this positive reinforcement class that she should go to.
00:17:01.240 --> 00:17:07.680
Lisa Waggoner: So she had trained her dog eight years with choke collars and prong collars, and all-aversive training.
00:17:07.680 --> 00:17:16.640
Lisa Waggoner: And her dog would comply when she gave him a cue, but outside of a class environment, he didn't want to be near her.
00:17:16.640 --> 00:17:17.460
Genie Joseph: Wow.
00:17:17.460 --> 00:17:19.200
Lisa Waggoner: He wanted nothing to do with her.
00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:19.660
Genie Joseph: Yeah.
00:17:19.660 --> 00:17:23.240
Lisa Waggoner: If he would just want to be away from her.
00:17:23.240 --> 00:17:23.500
Genie Joseph: Wow.
00:17:23.500 --> 00:17:28.300
Lisa Waggoner: They took our Rocket Recall class and then put the practice into home.
00:17:28.300 --> 00:17:32.420
Lisa Waggoner: Remember, all training is only as good as implementing it at home.
00:17:32.420 --> 00:17:32.740
Announcer: Right.
00:17:32.740 --> 00:17:34.920
Lisa Waggoner: They did all of that.
00:17:34.920 --> 00:17:41.900
Lisa Waggoner: And to see the difference in their relationship, her dog, who is named Sirius, wanted to be with her.
00:17:41.900 --> 00:17:42.180
Announcer: Wow.
00:17:42.800 --> 00:17:47.540
Lisa Waggoner: Wanted to spend time with her, and he would return when she called.
00:17:47.540 --> 00:17:48.400
Genie Joseph: Wow.
00:17:48.740 --> 00:18:06.060
Lisa Waggoner: So to see the client gain success, to see the dog gain success with Recall, but to see how their bond shifted, how they developed a bond really, was it brings tears to my eyes still.
00:18:07.600 --> 00:18:07.840
Genie Joseph: Yeah.
00:18:07.840 --> 00:18:20.340
Genie Joseph: Because those shock collars and stuff, like we were saying, they can get an immediate appearance of compliance, but the price of that is the bond, is the love, is the trust.
00:18:20.340 --> 00:18:22.120
Lisa Waggoner: Yeah.
00:18:22.120 --> 00:18:25.120
Lisa Waggoner: There are serious unintended consequences.
00:18:25.120 --> 00:18:32.440
Lisa Waggoner: And my husband Brad will always say, I don't have to shoot you.
00:18:32.440 --> 00:18:35.520
Lisa Waggoner: If I just cock the gun, it'll probably scare you.
00:18:36.680 --> 00:18:37.400
Lisa Waggoner: What do you want?
00:18:37.400 --> 00:18:44.980
Lisa Waggoner: Do you want a dog who's returning to you because they fear something that's going to be painful to them?
00:18:44.980 --> 00:18:50.660
Lisa Waggoner: Or do you want them returning to you with unbridled joy?
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Lisa Waggoner: Yeah.
00:18:51.240 --> 00:18:52.420
Lisa Waggoner: I want the latter.
00:18:52.960 --> 00:18:54.000
Genie Joseph: Yeah.
00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:59.320
Genie Joseph: And so you've been around, I mean, you've seen the old ways, you've seen the new ways.
00:18:59.320 --> 00:19:06.800
Genie Joseph: Do you feel like the word is getting out, that positivity is the way to go, or do you feel like we still have a long way to go to educate the public?
00:19:06.800 --> 00:19:08.520
Lisa Waggoner: I think there's a long way to go, Jeannie.
00:19:08.520 --> 00:19:16.720
Lisa Waggoner: I think there was a time, there was starting to be a shift, and then there's some really aversive trainers who are TV personalities now.
00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:21.080
Lisa Waggoner: And that has promoted the use of aversive training.
00:19:21.080 --> 00:19:30.180
Lisa Waggoner: That's why, in addition to just wanting to put my book and my protocol into book format, I've seen the increase of shock collar training.
00:19:32.620 --> 00:19:46.900
Lisa Waggoner: And I wanted guardians to know that there's a different way, a very successful way, to train their dog where the dog feels joy versus fear.
00:19:46.900 --> 00:19:49.860
Genie Joseph: Yeah, it's interesting, because in the military, I've worked a lot with the military.
00:19:49.860 --> 00:19:57.040
Genie Joseph: And in the old days, they used aversive methods, they used fear, and they got wise that this was not the best method.
00:19:57.040 --> 00:19:59.300
Genie Joseph: And they began to switch to positive training.
00:19:59.380 --> 00:20:10.380
Genie Joseph: And what they found was that the dogs, it was 300% more effective in terms of both the speed that the dog learned it and the ability of the dog to retain what they had learned.
00:20:10.380 --> 00:20:15.120
Genie Joseph: And so they have, you know, and we're talking about military working dogs training.
00:20:15.120 --> 00:20:33.840
Genie Joseph: So for them to recognize that this is just the better way, it's so sad when you hear people still thinking that shock collars and other aversive methods, aversive meaning fear-inducer, pain-inducing methods, are, you know, anything that should be even legal.
00:20:33.840 --> 00:20:34.460
Lisa Waggoner: Absolutely.
00:20:34.460 --> 00:20:37.280
Lisa Waggoner: Well, here, you know, here's a human example, too.
00:20:37.280 --> 00:20:45.940
Lisa Waggoner: We, a animal who's trained with positive reinforcement will work really hard to attain that reinforcer.
00:20:45.940 --> 00:20:52.940
Lisa Waggoner: If they're trained with aversive, they'll work hard enough just not to receive the aversive feeling, the punishment.
00:20:52.940 --> 00:21:01.760
Lisa Waggoner: We were teaching a learning theory class in a dog training academy when Brad and I were up speaking, talking about learning theory, mentioned that.
00:21:01.760 --> 00:21:05.060
Lisa Waggoner: And he said, oh my gosh, here's my human example.
00:21:05.060 --> 00:21:08.040
Lisa Waggoner: Lisa's father had a Ph.D.
00:21:08.040 --> 00:21:10.360
Lisa Waggoner: in clinical psychology.
00:21:10.360 --> 00:21:16.660
Lisa Waggoner: And she was told when she brought an A home on her report card, she'd get $5.
00:21:16.660 --> 00:21:18.280
Lisa Waggoner: My dad had a Ph.D.
00:21:18.280 --> 00:21:20.240
Lisa Waggoner: in music education.
00:21:20.240 --> 00:21:25.260
Lisa Waggoner: And when I was told in no uncertain terms, if you ever bring a D home, you're grounded.
00:21:26.580 --> 00:21:28.400
Lisa Waggoner: Who do you think was the A student?
00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:30.300
Lisa Waggoner: And who do you think was the C student?
00:21:30.300 --> 00:21:32.360
Genie Joseph: Yeah, the one who was positive.
00:21:32.360 --> 00:21:35.280
Lisa Waggoner: Just enough to not receive that.
00:21:35.280 --> 00:21:36.420
Genie Joseph: Right, right.
00:21:37.340 --> 00:21:38.740
Genie Joseph: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:21:38.740 --> 00:21:40.000
Genie Joseph: Yeah, it's so interesting.
00:21:40.240 --> 00:21:45.760
Genie Joseph: It's, you know, we get more bees with honey or bears with honey.
00:21:45.760 --> 00:21:46.440
Genie Joseph: I forgot this.
00:21:46.440 --> 00:21:48.580
Genie Joseph: I forget to say, you know what I mean.
00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:49.480
Genie Joseph: I said that.
00:21:49.480 --> 00:21:50.160
Lisa Waggoner: Exactly.
00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:50.560
Genie Joseph: Yeah.
00:21:50.560 --> 00:21:50.720
Lisa Waggoner: Yeah.
00:21:51.500 --> 00:22:02.740
Lisa Waggoner: And, you know, I trained, I was not a professional dog trainer, but I trained my dogs with aversive tools, toe collars, and prong collars, and leash jerks.
00:22:02.740 --> 00:22:10.120
Lisa Waggoner: And it was an Australian shepherd that we brought into her home where I wanted to learn agility.
00:22:10.120 --> 00:22:11.580
Lisa Waggoner: And so I bought books on agility.
00:22:11.580 --> 00:22:13.820
Lisa Waggoner: There were no agility classes in my rural area.
00:22:13.820 --> 00:22:19.500
Lisa Waggoner: I started reading about, oh, you give the dog a piece of food after they do the behavior.
00:22:20.860 --> 00:22:23.260
Lisa Waggoner: And like, oh, my gosh, this is amazing.
00:22:23.260 --> 00:22:26.300
Lisa Waggoner: I started using it with Carter.
00:22:26.300 --> 00:22:29.140
Lisa Waggoner: His exuberance was there.
00:22:29.140 --> 00:22:31.080
Lisa Waggoner: I created an amazing buy-in.
00:22:31.080 --> 00:22:33.660
Lisa Waggoner: It was very effective.
00:22:33.660 --> 00:22:39.740
Lisa Waggoner: And so unfortunately, at two and a half, he was tragically killed.
00:22:39.740 --> 00:22:43.560
Lisa Waggoner: And it was not long after I had learned about the positive reinforcement.
00:22:43.560 --> 00:22:47.520
Lisa Waggoner: And I was in the depths of depression for three months.
00:22:47.520 --> 00:22:55.660
Lisa Waggoner: And when I finally crawled my way out, I said, you know, I want to help other people learn that they don't have to hurt their dog to train their dog.
00:22:55.680 --> 00:22:57.700
Lisa Waggoner: Never meant to be a dog trainer.
00:22:57.700 --> 00:22:59.680
Lisa Waggoner: I just wanted to help my shelter.
00:22:59.680 --> 00:23:01.340
Lisa Waggoner: But you know, I got bitten by the bug.
00:23:01.340 --> 00:23:06.180
Lisa Waggoner: I started learning and learning learning theory and it's like I'm hooked.
00:23:07.420 --> 00:23:08.460
Genie Joseph: Great.
00:23:08.460 --> 00:23:11.520
Genie Joseph: So tell us just a little bit about your program, the Coulthoose College.
00:23:11.520 --> 00:23:13.680
Genie Joseph: What can people learn through you with you?
00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:19.540
Lisa Waggoner: So Coulthoose College, you know, our business has shifted over the 20 years, about every five years.
00:23:19.540 --> 00:23:34.340
Lisa Waggoner: So it has morphed into now we're working with professional trainers and we're providing behavior and consulting, behavior consulting, or case consulting for aspiring trainers.
00:23:34.760 --> 00:23:37.160
Lisa Waggoner: Well, aspiring too, but also professional trainers.
00:23:37.760 --> 00:23:42.960
Lisa Waggoner: And we're on faculty teaching for Victoria Stilwell Academy of Dog Training and Behavior.
00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:50.980
Lisa Waggoner: So we're, I'm on Zoom every day with students in different parts of the world, helping them hone their skills.
00:23:50.980 --> 00:23:54.060
Lisa Waggoner: And so teaching the next generation of dog trainers.
00:23:54.060 --> 00:23:55.040
Genie Joseph: That's fantastic.
00:23:55.040 --> 00:23:57.140
Genie Joseph: Spreading the word, spreading the love.
00:23:57.140 --> 00:23:57.540
Lisa Waggoner: Yeah.
00:23:57.540 --> 00:24:02.380
Lisa Waggoner: And then spreading Rocket Recall, you know, the methodology.
00:24:02.380 --> 00:24:03.180
Genie Joseph: Yeah.
00:24:03.180 --> 00:24:08.220
Lisa Waggoner: A fun, effective way to teach your dog to come back to you.
00:24:08.220 --> 00:24:09.420
Genie Joseph: Yeah.
00:24:09.420 --> 00:24:14.100
Genie Joseph: Well, we have, you know, our latest rescue is a wonderful dog and he has passed his therapy dog test.
00:24:14.100 --> 00:24:19.300
Genie Joseph: So he's doing very well, but he has one behavior that is not so desirable.
00:24:19.300 --> 00:24:26.560
Genie Joseph: And that is when I leave the house and I come back, you know, there's like, okay, what am I to find here?
00:24:26.560 --> 00:24:28.960
Genie Joseph: You know, so he gets into everything.
00:24:29.040 --> 00:24:40.720
Genie Joseph: I mean, you think everything's put away, everything's okay, I did my thing, the garbage can is locked, you know, and it's mostly food, but he has chewed the ends of scissors, you know, I mean, just everything.
00:24:40.720 --> 00:24:42.920
Genie Joseph: So any thoughts?
00:24:42.920 --> 00:24:46.040
Lisa Waggoner: Well, so yes, I'm happy.
00:24:46.040 --> 00:24:57.720
Lisa Waggoner: It seems to be what I call normal dog behaviors, which is getting into things that they shouldn't get into and wanting to chew and versus true separation anxiety.
00:24:57.900 --> 00:25:00.180
Lisa Waggoner: I'm also a certified separation anxiety trainer.
00:25:00.180 --> 00:25:09.500
Lisa Waggoner: I worked for seven years solely with guardians whose dogs were terrified, you know, at symptoms of not being comfortable home alone.
00:25:09.500 --> 00:25:16.020
Lisa Waggoner: It sounds to me like your dog may be finding fun things to do while you're away.
00:25:16.020 --> 00:25:24.440
Lisa Waggoner: So, you know, it's hard to say exactly what might help, but add further enrichment to your dog's life.
00:25:24.600 --> 00:25:32.760
Lisa Waggoner: So, he's mentally and physically well satiated and make sure that happens before you leave.
00:25:32.760 --> 00:25:38.000
Lisa Waggoner: And then you could leave food toys or scatter food throughout your house.
00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:43.460
Lisa Waggoner: So, it gives him something to do search and seek and look for.
00:25:43.460 --> 00:25:47.380
Lisa Waggoner: That may be beneficial or crate train him.
00:25:47.380 --> 00:25:48.940
Lisa Waggoner: So, he's very comfortable.
00:25:48.940 --> 00:25:58.120
Lisa Waggoner: So, you know, for, you know, two or three hours while you're away, you can be comfortable that he's not going to be chewing up your.
00:25:58.120 --> 00:25:58.780
Genie Joseph: Yeah.
00:25:58.900 --> 00:26:00.360
Genie Joseph: Well, we've got three dogs.
00:26:00.360 --> 00:26:02.940
Lisa Waggoner: They're so, I mean, dangerous.
00:26:02.940 --> 00:26:03.360
Genie Joseph: Right.
00:26:03.360 --> 00:26:03.740
Genie Joseph: Yeah.
00:26:03.740 --> 00:26:03.980
Genie Joseph: Yeah.
00:26:03.980 --> 00:26:06.420
Genie Joseph: I mean, it's like, how did he get this thing?
00:26:08.280 --> 00:26:10.260
Lisa Waggoner: They're so creative, aren't they?
00:26:10.260 --> 00:26:10.940
Genie Joseph: So creative.
00:26:10.940 --> 00:26:13.760
Genie Joseph: I mean, we've got three dogs in the house, you know?
00:26:13.760 --> 00:26:24.240
Genie Joseph: So, and he's the one that I think instigates these things and he'll eat a whole loaf of bread if he can, you know, it's like, didn't realize that the breadbox was not closed.
00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:43.600
Lisa Waggoner: I have a trainer friend that I worked with whose dog did have separation anxiety, but he also was a food hound, he was a lamb, and he crawled through a cupboard, not an armoire, like a kitchen, an antique kitchen cupboard that had a slide on it to the kitchen.
00:26:43.600 --> 00:26:56.460
Lisa Waggoner: He got up on that cupboard, slid the door open to that pass-through, crawled through the little teeny tiny hole, and ate everything he could get his mouth on in the kitchen.
00:26:56.460 --> 00:26:56.860
Genie Joseph: I know.
00:26:56.860 --> 00:27:01.920
Genie Joseph: It's like, I think, Harry, I can't believe he's still alive after the things he's consumed.
00:27:01.920 --> 00:27:05.460
Lisa Waggoner: He must be related to Ben.
00:27:05.480 --> 00:27:08.080
Lisa Waggoner: Isn't the dog's name is Ben?
00:27:09.020 --> 00:27:13.440
Genie Joseph: He was in a house with 12 dogs when I got him.
00:27:13.440 --> 00:27:15.900
Genie Joseph: So yeah, I don't know what all would fit.
00:27:16.900 --> 00:27:18.980
Genie Joseph: She says, he never did that here.
00:27:18.980 --> 00:27:21.260
Lisa Waggoner: I'm so glad you landed in your house.
00:27:21.260 --> 00:27:21.900
Genie Joseph: Yeah.
00:27:21.900 --> 00:27:26.040
Genie Joseph: Well, it's also been summer, so he hasn't been out doing his therapy dog visits at the school.
00:27:26.040 --> 00:27:27.860
Genie Joseph: We do a lot of school visits and stuff.
00:27:27.860 --> 00:27:29.880
Genie Joseph: It's been too hot for the dogs to go out.
00:27:29.880 --> 00:27:31.940
Genie Joseph: So he's probably bored.
00:27:31.940 --> 00:27:36.100
Lisa Waggoner: Yeah, I have Houston students in Houston, and it's just so unbearable.
00:27:36.100 --> 00:27:38.480
Lisa Waggoner: You know, at 1130, it's still 100 degrees there.
00:27:38.480 --> 00:27:42.920
Lisa Waggoner: And so it's hard to give them the physical meet their physical needs.
00:27:43.580 --> 00:27:54.740
Lisa Waggoner: So truly, if you can use the nose and have him do some searching and seeking within your house in certain areas, that may be really beneficial for him.
00:27:54.740 --> 00:27:55.300
Genie Joseph: Okay.
00:27:55.300 --> 00:27:56.220
Genie Joseph: Well, great.
00:27:56.220 --> 00:27:58.580
Genie Joseph: Well, it's been just wonderful to talk with you, Lisa.
00:27:58.580 --> 00:28:11.200
Genie Joseph: I'm so glad that you're promoting this method of philosophy of positivity based on trust, based on a sense of safety, based on mutual respect between person and animal.
00:28:11.200 --> 00:28:11.960
Genie Joseph: That's just beautiful.
00:28:12.180 --> 00:28:16.160
Genie Joseph: So, if people want to find you and work with you, where should they go?
00:28:16.160 --> 00:28:18.640
Lisa Waggoner: So, you can find us at Coldinus College.
00:28:18.640 --> 00:28:45.660
Lisa Waggoner: If you go to coldinuscollege.com on the Rocket Recall page, or you can type in rocketrecall.com, you can go to that page, see what we have available, and also access a free download of the 12 Rules of Rocket Recall, which is a quick reference guide I put together, so people will understand the most important concepts that kind of gives you some Cliffnote version, if you will.
00:28:45.660 --> 00:28:49.880
Lisa Waggoner: So feel free to head there and download that.
00:28:49.880 --> 00:29:00.340
Lisa Waggoner: And then I shared with you, Jeannie, if you choose to, our course that just came out in May, sits on the Thinkific platform.
00:29:00.340 --> 00:29:03.060
Lisa Waggoner: You can access it through our website.
00:29:03.060 --> 00:29:07.920
Lisa Waggoner: But I have a 40% discount code for that.
00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:10.480
Lisa Waggoner: So I'm sure you can put that in the notes of the...
00:29:10.580 --> 00:29:13.140
Genie Joseph: Yeah, we'll go ahead and say it just so people can hear it.
00:29:13.140 --> 00:29:13.460
Lisa Waggoner: Yeah.
00:29:13.460 --> 00:29:23.400
Lisa Waggoner: So the link you'll find on our website, but the 40% savings code is HAC for Human-Animal Connection, HAC 40.
00:29:23.400 --> 00:29:24.320
Genie Joseph: Okay.
00:29:24.320 --> 00:29:28.400
Lisa Waggoner: And that expires at the end of August.
00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:28.680
Genie Joseph: Yeah.
00:29:28.680 --> 00:29:32.880
Genie Joseph: So I'm not sure that the show will air for then, but we'll figure that out.
00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:33.420
Genie Joseph: We'll work on that.
00:29:33.420 --> 00:29:33.920
Lisa Waggoner: You know what?
00:29:33.920 --> 00:29:35.100
Lisa Waggoner: I'll just extend it.
00:29:35.100 --> 00:29:35.880
Genie Joseph: Okay.
00:29:35.880 --> 00:29:36.600
Genie Joseph: Very good.
00:29:36.620 --> 00:29:37.960
Lisa Waggoner: So no expiration date.
00:29:37.960 --> 00:29:39.120
Genie Joseph: That's even better, isn't it?
00:29:39.200 --> 00:29:39.960
Genie Joseph: Even better.
00:29:39.960 --> 00:29:41.020
Lisa Waggoner: Yeah.
00:29:41.020 --> 00:29:41.200
Lisa Waggoner: Yeah.
00:29:41.200 --> 00:29:42.880
Genie Joseph: Because people be listening all different times.
00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:51.160
Genie Joseph: So well, Lisa Waggoner from Cold Nose College and the original Rocket Recall.
00:29:51.160 --> 00:29:57.960
Genie Joseph: Thank you so much for this great information and for the great work you're doing and helping trainers learn how to be positive, positive, positive.
00:29:57.960 --> 00:29:58.900
Genie Joseph: Love, love, love.
00:29:58.900 --> 00:29:59.440
Genie Joseph: That's all we need.
00:29:59.440 --> 00:30:00.120
Lisa Waggoner: Thank you, Jeannie.
00:30:00.120 --> 00:30:03.600
Lisa Waggoner: You do some amazing things for dogs and their people too.
00:30:03.600 --> 00:30:05.040
Lisa Waggoner: So thank you for all you do.
00:30:05.040 --> 00:30:06.680
Lisa Waggoner: And I really appreciate you inviting me.
00:30:06.780 --> 00:30:11.520
Lisa Waggoner: It's a joy to see you and speak with you again and share information with your listeners.
00:30:11.520 --> 00:30:12.800
Lisa Waggoner: Thank you.
00:30:12.800 --> 00:30:16.440
Genie Joseph: We'll see you again for the Human-Animal Connection podcast.
00:30:16.440 --> 00:30:18.340
Genie Joseph: We'll say aloha for now.
00:30:22.520 --> 00:30:25.800
Announcer: Thank you for tuning into the Human-Animal Connection show.
00:30:25.800 --> 00:30:28.580
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00:30:30.540 --> 00:30:37.360
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