Cattitude

BIO:

Hailing from Cincinnati, Ohio, Dr. Maggie O’Brian earned her bachelor’s degree in animal nutrition from Ohio State University and then continued her educational journey, achieving her veterinary degree from the Ohio State University College of Veterinary Medicine in 2017.

After graduation, Dr. O’Brian spent one year in an emergency and primary care practice, gaining valuable experience. Her passion for helping animals and understanding their behavior led her to pursue an intensive 3-year residency program in Behavioral Medicine at Ohio State College of Veterinary Medicine, which she successfully completed in 2021. It was in October of that year that Dr. O’Brian proudly became a Diplomate of the American College of Veterinary Behaviorist.

Beyond her professional achievements, Dr. O’Brian’s heart is at home in Charlotte, North Carolina, where she resides with her husband, Colin, their adorable young son, Walter, and their naughty but sweet Beagle mix, Mashed Potatoes

Transcript:

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Announcer: This is Pet Life Radio.

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Announcer: Let's talk pets.

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Michelle Fern: Hello, cat lovers.

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Michelle Fern: Welcome to Cattitude.

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Michelle Fern: I'm your show host, Michelle Fern.

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Michelle Fern: So, you know, one of the new things, and it's not even that new anymore, is telehealth, virtual visits, and doing what you can with your cat virtually versus having to go to a veterinarian or having to other ways communicate with somebody that could help your cat.

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Michelle Fern: Virtually is the way to go, but there's a lot of questions on how it works, what to do, is it good for all behaviors?

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Michelle Fern: My guest today is the founding partner of a virtual veterinary medicine company, and we have the answers for you.

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Michelle Fern: So stay tuned, we'll be right back.

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Announcer: Let's talk pets on petliferadio.com.

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Michelle Fern: Welcome back, everyone.

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Michelle Fern: I'd like to welcome Maggie O'Brian.

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Michelle Fern: She is the managing partner of Virtual Veterinary Behavior Medicine.

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Michelle Fern: Welcome, Maggie.

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Maggie O'Brian: Hi, it's so nice to be here.

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Michelle Fern: I'm so glad to have you.

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Michelle Fern: You're also a veterinarian yourself, correct?

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Maggie O'Brian: I am, yes.

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Michelle Fern: Okay, so I should have said Dr.

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Michelle Fern: Maggie O'Brian.

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Maggie O'Brian: I answer to both.

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Michelle Fern: Okay, thank you.

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Michelle Fern: Can you share your background with us?

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Maggie O'Brian: Yes, of course.

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Maggie O'Brian: Yeah, so I am a board-certified veterinary behaviorist.

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Maggie O'Brian: So just like in human medicine, where you can specialize in a certain area, veterinarians can do the same thing.

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Maggie O'Brian: So you can do cardiology or dermatology.

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Maggie O'Brian: And then I chose behavior, because I think it's the best of all the specialties.

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Maggie O'Brian: So all I do from a professional standpoint is work with pet parents to help dogs and cats with behavior concerns.

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Maggie O'Brian: So it's a very fun, unique little area of veterinary medicine.

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Maggie O'Brian: And then personally, I live in Charlotte, North Carolina, and I have a wonderful husband and a one and a half year old.

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Maggie O'Brian: And unfortunately, the husband is very, very allergic to kitty cats, but we do have a beagle mix named Mashed Potatoes as well.

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Michelle Fern: What's your beagle's name?

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Maggie O'Brian: Her name is Mashed Potatoes.

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Maggie O'Brian: I was on board, but it was not my original idea.

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Michelle Fern: That's an adorable name.

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Maggie O'Brian: She's a good girl.

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Michelle Fern: Okay.

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Michelle Fern: Thanks, Maggie, for sharing that.

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Michelle Fern: Let's talk about how virtual visits work, because people have heard more, I think, about Teladoc where you're calling for your cat, or sharing symptoms of what your cat might have.

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Michelle Fern: But as far as behaviors and all that, that seems to be a little bit of a newer ground.

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Michelle Fern: So how would that work?

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Maggie O'Brian: Yeah, so they're actually not wildly dissimilar to the appointments that we do in person.

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Maggie O'Brian: With behavior appointments, the vast majority of what we do during the actual time we meet is just a very long conversation with the owner.

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Maggie O'Brian: So we get a lot of background info about the pet's behavior, the owner fills out a very, very long questionnaire, we get a lot of medical history.

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Maggie O'Brian: And then when we meet with them, it's more just clarifying history, going through an assessment.

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Maggie O'Brian: So why do we feel like their cat has the behaviors they have?

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Maggie O'Brian: What do we feel like prognosis for changes?

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Maggie O'Brian: And then spend most of our time just talking through a plan.

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Maggie O'Brian: And so that's something that lends itself really, really well to the virtual world because it's mostly just that conversation, which we can do over a video call.

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Michelle Fern: Thank you.

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Michelle Fern: What made you decide to create virtual veterinary medicine?

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Maggie O'Brian: The biggest driver of doing virtual behavior medicine is the lack of access that a lot of people have to a veterinary behavior specialist.

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Maggie O'Brian: So there's about a hundred people that are board certified in behavior, or about a hundred veterinarians, and not all of those people practice clinically, and that's in the United States.

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Maggie O'Brian: So there's large cities without access to a local veterinary behaviorist.

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Maggie O'Brian: There are cities where the waitlist to see a veterinary behaviorist is months long.

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Maggie O'Brian: And so one of the main goals was just to expand care and access to people to get help for their cats and dogs.

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Maggie O'Brian: Behavior concerns, it's such a common issue that people face.

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Maggie O'Brian: And so to have that mismatch between available help and the need was an area that we felt like we could help with.

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Michelle Fern: Well, I'm glad you opened the business because they're definitely filling a void.

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Michelle Fern: And I think also, especially with regards to cats and behavior, you're kind of without having a veterinary behaviorist, you're kind of stuck.

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Maggie O'Brian: Yeah, I think there's a lot less available help in general for our cats, kind of across the board, but especially for behavior.

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Maggie O'Brian: Obviously, the world of dog training is massive.

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Maggie O'Brian: There's excellent help kind of across the board.

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Maggie O'Brian: There's obviously some types of training we don't use, but there's a lot of help available, typically, if you're looking for the right spots.

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Maggie O'Brian: Cats, there are absolutely people doing cat behavior and cat training and all of that, but not nearly to the degree that we have for dogs.

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Maggie O'Brian: And so part of that, too, is trying to get help to these poor kitty cats that need behavior help.

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Michelle Fern: Thank you.

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Michelle Fern: What are the best behaviors to discuss virtually?

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Michelle Fern: And I understand that it could be all.

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Michelle Fern: There could be some that are better than others.

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Michelle Fern: And there could be some that we wouldn't think of, but that would be a good behavior to discuss.

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Maggie O'Brian: Yeah.

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Maggie O'Brian: So the most common issues we see in person and virtually, again, all lend themselves pretty well to virtual medicine.

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Maggie O'Brian: So we tend to select just because of the specialty aspect.

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Maggie O'Brian: We tend to select for things like aggression, whether that's towards familiar people, unfamiliar people, towards other cats in the house.

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Maggie O'Brian: But we'll also see inappropriate elimination or compulsive type issues or nuisance type behaviors.

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Maggie O'Brian: And now with the ability of people to grab their phone and take a video really quickly of the behaviors they're seeing, most of these problems happen at home anyway.

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Maggie O'Brian: And so we can get a really good snapshot into what's happening that wouldn't happen in exam room anyway.

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Maggie O'Brian: And so the issues that we see in person can be the same as the ones that we can help with virtually.

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Michelle Fern: Okay, so let's do a sample test.

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Michelle Fern: So a sample, so how it would work.

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Michelle Fern: So our listening audience gets a great idea of how a session might work without going, of course, into extreme detail.

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Michelle Fern: Let's say that, and I have this with one of my crew, Charlotte, with inappropriate elimination.

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Michelle Fern: That's just something that I think happens with a lot of homes, especially multi-cat homes.

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Michelle Fern: So what would be the process from start to finish?

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Michelle Fern: So they contact you and what happens?

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Maggie O'Brian: Yep, so they make an appointment, and then once that's scheduled, we get medical records.

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Maggie O'Brian: So that's super important.

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Maggie O'Brian: We know cats hide illness really well, particularly if you're talking about inappropriate elimination.

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Maggie O'Brian: We want to see what the urine testing looks like, what their blood work looks like.

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Maggie O'Brian: So we get that full medical history.

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Maggie O'Brian: We get that long behavior history as well.

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Maggie O'Brian: If the owners want to submit videos prior to the appointment, they're welcome to do that, and that can be really illuminating.

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Maggie O'Brian: And then we sit down and meet over a video call.

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Maggie O'Brian: Those appointments are about an hour long.

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Maggie O'Brian: And again, we just go over to clarify the concerns, go through an assessment, and then we walk through what that plan would look like.

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Maggie O'Brian: And that varies depending on the case, but in some cases, it might be medication recommendations.

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Maggie O'Brian: There's always some level of behavior modification and environmental adjustments.

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Maggie O'Brian: And then we include follow up as well.

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Maggie O'Brian: It'd be great if we could fix every one in one hour.

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Maggie O'Brian: That's not typically how behavior always progresses.

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Maggie O'Brian: So it's important that we stay in touch afterwards and make necessary adjustments and figure out what's working and what we need to adjust on to make the best outcome.

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Michelle Fern: Okay.

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Michelle Fern: And I know that they can vary, but how many sessions are typical?

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Michelle Fern: And what is your success rate?

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Maggie O'Brian: That is such a good question about how many sessions.

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Maggie O'Brian: So it depends, which I know is a bit of an annoying answer, but it depends.

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Maggie O'Brian: Typically, what we try to set people up for is that we see each other once, we should absolutely be checking in about six weeks later because we want to know, we need to be on the right track to some degree at that point.

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Maggie O'Brian: And then oftentimes, we'll meet every two to three months, maybe for six to eight months.

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Maggie O'Brian: It depends a lot on the issue.

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Maggie O'Brian: There's absolutely pets we say way less frequently, and then I absolutely have patients where we've been seeing each other every six months for the last four years.

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Maggie O'Brian: So it really runs the gambit of how much people like to check in and where the status of the pet is too.

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Maggie O'Brian: Success rate?

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Maggie O'Brian: So that's also a very good question.

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Maggie O'Brian: I don't have specific numbers for you.

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Maggie O'Brian: We do select for some severe cases.

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Maggie O'Brian: The majority of pets were able to help.

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Maggie O'Brian: I would not enjoy my job if I felt like everyone was a lost cause.

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Maggie O'Brian: I had a pet parent ask me last week, he was like, can you even help behavior?

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Maggie O'Brian: I was like, gosh, I'll be bad at my job.

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Maggie O'Brian: He was at the very beginning.

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Maggie O'Brian: He asked me that.

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Maggie O'Brian: I was like, gosh, this wouldn't be a fun job if we couldn't change anything.

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Maggie O'Brian: So, the majority of pets were able to get into a better spot.

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Maggie O'Brian: Significant behavior problems are not something we generally talk about, you know, snapping our fingers and they're gone, and they're never an issue again.

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Maggie O'Brian: But it's, can we get things to a place where the pet parents are happy, the cat or the dog is happy, and the plan feels manageable, and then we feel good if we're in that spot with them.

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Michelle Fern: You know what, in listening to your responses, it feels like therapy for your cats through the pet parents.

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Maggie O'Brian: Yes, so it is a lot of talking with the owner about what we want to implement, how do we respond to the problem.

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Maggie O'Brian: It is a lot of, again, we do discuss medications as veterinary professionals as well, if that tends to be part of the goals.

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Maggie O'Brian: But we do equate it a lot to human mental health professionals because there's a lot of overlap between needing ongoing care in some cases and needing kind of a full management plan.

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Michelle Fern: Yeah, I think it's great because like you said, there is a void.

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Michelle Fern: And the other challenge is that pets are, they're not so easy to transport to a vet or to a veterinary behaviorist in real life like live versus over virtually.

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Michelle Fern: So I think it's a great idea.

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Michelle Fern: I think it's going to be an area of feline health that is going to be expanding and you're on the forefront.

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Maggie O'Brian: Yeah, I was just agreeing with you.

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Michelle Fern: Okay, I love to be agreed with.

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Maggie O'Brian: Don't we all?

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Michelle Fern: So Maggie, are there any other tips you can offer our listeners if they're considering virtual behavior for their cats?

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Maggie O'Brian: Yeah, so I would just encourage them to always talk to their primary care veterinarian.

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Maggie O'Brian: We onboard primary care is kind of part of the care team, especially with the virtual nature.

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Maggie O'Brian: So we want to get the medical records and everything.

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Maggie O'Brian: So it's always good to loop primary care into everything and bring up your behavior concerns.

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Maggie O'Brian: And then I would just see seeking care earlier rather than later.

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Maggie O'Brian: Behavior problems do not tend to get better naturally or on their own, especially things like inner cat aggression.

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Maggie O'Brian: We talk about cats being a little more prone to dispersal rather than reconciliation.

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Maggie O'Brian: And so if you have something brewing between the cats, the more repeated negative interactions they have, that can be really detrimental for our prognosis.

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Maggie O'Brian: So we're always advocates of the sooner the better to get behavior help.

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Michelle Fern: Thank you so much.

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Michelle Fern: All right, we're going to take a quick break and we'll be right back.

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Michelle Fern: So stay tuned.

00:13:18.779 --> 00:13:23.159
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00:14:30.633 --> 00:14:31.693
Michelle Fern: Welcome back, everyone.

00:14:31.693 --> 00:14:33.013
Michelle Fern: We're talking to Dr.

00:14:33.013 --> 00:14:34.373
Michelle Fern: Maggie O'Brian.

00:14:34.373 --> 00:14:38.733
Michelle Fern: She is the managing partner of Virtual Veterinary Medicine.

00:14:38.733 --> 00:14:43.193
Michelle Fern: And we talked about Virtual Veterinary Medicine in the first half.

00:14:43.193 --> 00:14:46.793
Michelle Fern: We're gonna talk about something a little different, but related.

00:14:46.793 --> 00:14:52.913
Michelle Fern: So, Maggie, when we were, prior to the show we were talking, you mentioned something called Stranger Danger.

00:14:52.913 --> 00:14:57.753
Michelle Fern: And I thought that was just for little kids, but that's a thing for cats.

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Michelle Fern: So what is that?

00:14:59.133 --> 00:15:02.913
Maggie O'Brian: So Stranger Danger, we would think of as fear of unfamiliar people.

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Maggie O'Brian: So since cats primarily are gonna live in their home and that's their whole world, we're usually referring to fear of visitors or service workers who might be coming into the house.

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Maggie O'Brian: So it's your kitty cat that people come and stay with you for a weekend, and by the end, they're convinced you don't actually have a cat, because they haven't seen the kitty yet.

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Maggie O'Brian: So just a cat that's nervous about unfamiliar people.

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Michelle Fern: That's like all cats.

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Michelle Fern: I mean, the last time, so I have three, and so the last time I had people come over, they all disappeared, and finally Dennis came out.

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Michelle Fern: He's the most, I hate saying this, but he's the most like uncat-like, because he's partying.

00:15:40.313 --> 00:15:45.713
Michelle Fern: He's pretty friendly, and he'll check out things, and the others are just goodbye.

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Michelle Fern: I am done.

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Michelle Fern: Why are these people in my home?

00:15:49.633 --> 00:15:52.973
Michelle Fern: And during the holidays, we have a lot of people in and out.

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Michelle Fern: So, what can people do to make sure their cats are not freaked out?

00:15:58.753 --> 00:15:59.133
Maggie O'Brian: Yes.

00:15:59.133 --> 00:16:06.853
Maggie O'Brian: And like you mentioned, it's much more common that kitties are not as much dentist-like, and that they are more inclined to hide.

00:16:06.853 --> 00:16:08.993
Maggie O'Brian: So we'll see cats for all these different problems.

00:16:08.993 --> 00:16:13.193
Maggie O'Brian: And part of our questionnaire is, what does your cat do when visitors come over?

00:16:13.193 --> 00:16:17.313
Maggie O'Brian: And it's almost never why they're coming in, but it'll say hides every time.

00:16:17.553 --> 00:16:21.513
Maggie O'Brian: The majority of kitty cats do not want to be, you know, the greeters at the door.

00:16:22.133 --> 00:16:25.953
Maggie O'Brian: So when we see them, it's usually for hiding.

00:16:25.953 --> 00:16:27.413
Maggie O'Brian: It can kind of run the gambit.

00:16:27.413 --> 00:16:29.893
Maggie O'Brian: You can get cats that completely hide.

00:16:29.893 --> 00:16:30.793
Maggie O'Brian: You never see them.

00:16:30.793 --> 00:16:34.133
Maggie O'Brian: You can get the ones that are out, but don't want to be reached for.

00:16:34.133 --> 00:16:43.553
Maggie O'Brian: And then you can get more unique, but we absolutely see occasional kitty cats who are more inclined to be offensive when they feel threatened.

00:16:43.553 --> 00:16:55.833
Maggie O'Brian: So they may approach, you know, bat or bite unfamiliar people that are entering the property, which is always a very interesting case for me to see.

00:16:55.833 --> 00:16:59.233
Maggie O'Brian: It's a little more dog-like, but we will see that on occasion as well.

00:16:59.233 --> 00:17:02.673
Michelle Fern: And it's dangerous because cats carry a lot of bacteria.

00:17:02.673 --> 00:17:04.693
Maggie O'Brian: Yes, that can be very dangerous.

00:17:04.693 --> 00:17:08.253
Maggie O'Brian: And it's, I think it takes people by more surprise as well.

00:17:08.253 --> 00:17:10.573
Michelle Fern: Okay, so we know the cat is freaked out.

00:17:10.573 --> 00:17:15.233
Michelle Fern: Even though Dennis is okay with strangers, he's not the best.

00:17:15.653 --> 00:17:18.273
Michelle Fern: So, what is the cat going through?

00:17:18.273 --> 00:17:19.773
Michelle Fern: From the cat viewpoint?

00:17:19.773 --> 00:17:21.653
Maggie O'Brian: So it's a perception of threat.

00:17:21.653 --> 00:17:24.753
Maggie O'Brian: So I find this person to be threatening.

00:17:24.753 --> 00:17:26.673
Maggie O'Brian: I find this interaction to be threatening.

00:17:26.673 --> 00:17:30.533
Maggie O'Brian: And the way that cats deal with threat is gonna vary amongst individuals.

00:17:30.533 --> 00:17:32.773
Maggie O'Brian: So again, majority are gonna hide.

00:17:32.773 --> 00:17:35.873
Maggie O'Brian: You're gonna get some that will sit there and tolerate it.

00:17:35.873 --> 00:17:38.313
Maggie O'Brian: And then you'll get the more offensive kitties.

00:17:38.313 --> 00:17:41.833
Maggie O'Brian: But it's just the way that they perceive, I don't know this person.

00:17:41.833 --> 00:17:43.133
Maggie O'Brian: I don't feel safe around them.

00:17:43.133 --> 00:17:44.953
Maggie O'Brian: And so I wanna keep distance from them.

00:17:45.513 --> 00:17:54.313
Michelle Fern: Is there anything we can do as pet parents to make it easier other than, I mean, you can't go with never having people in your home.

00:17:54.313 --> 00:18:01.533
Michelle Fern: Especially, I mean, even if you're not a people person, you might have the occasional repair person or significant other.

00:18:01.533 --> 00:18:08.633
Michelle Fern: So how can we make our cats more people-friendly or tolerant of strangers in their home?

00:18:08.693 --> 00:18:13.273
Maggie O'Brian: Yes, so we don't necessarily need to make them social butterflies.

00:18:13.273 --> 00:18:17.673
Maggie O'Brian: So it is always good to have an escape route available.

00:18:17.673 --> 00:18:19.933
Maggie O'Brian: If they want to hide, they can hide.

00:18:19.933 --> 00:18:31.173
Maggie O'Brian: If people notice that the cat's under the bed in the master bedroom, upstairs away from everything, that would tell me that the cat is even too nervous with that setup.

00:18:31.173 --> 00:18:35.593
Maggie O'Brian: So if they're a cat that wants to hide, we try to set that environment up to lower stress.

00:18:35.853 --> 00:18:39.573
Maggie O'Brian: So white noise to block out the sound of the visitors.

00:18:39.573 --> 00:18:42.433
Maggie O'Brian: You can get bonus points if you add music on.

00:18:42.433 --> 00:18:48.493
Maggie O'Brian: And then you can provide them with food toys or pheromones or things to lower stress.

00:18:48.493 --> 00:18:58.453
Maggie O'Brian: If they want to be in the general area of the person, it's good to be their advocate and ask that people not pet them until they come up and ask for pets.

00:18:58.453 --> 00:19:07.693
Maggie O'Brian: People can throw treats and talk nicely to the kitty, but generally we want to be avoiding direct contact unless that cat is clearly asking for pets.

00:19:07.693 --> 00:19:12.133
Maggie O'Brian: So we kind of say, not all people are huggers and not all cats want to be pet by strangers.

00:19:12.133 --> 00:19:18.993
Michelle Fern: That's a great point because so often I will, these are people that have cats, so they should be aware.

00:19:18.993 --> 00:19:20.533
Michelle Fern: They'll go to pet a cat.

00:19:20.533 --> 00:19:22.773
Michelle Fern: You know, like Molly, do not touch her.

00:19:22.773 --> 00:19:24.093
Michelle Fern: She's not a hugger.

00:19:24.093 --> 00:19:28.273
Michelle Fern: You are considered her royal friend if she lets you pet her.

00:19:28.273 --> 00:19:28.533
Michelle Fern: Yes.

00:19:28.533 --> 00:19:29.813
Michelle Fern: That's how she rolls.

00:19:29.813 --> 00:19:31.533
Michelle Fern: And that's how a lot of cats are.

00:19:32.093 --> 00:19:36.273
Michelle Fern: So, I don't get why people that are cat people go ahead with that.

00:19:36.273 --> 00:19:38.493
Michelle Fern: Maybe it's just an auto-reflex, right?

00:19:38.493 --> 00:19:40.313
Michelle Fern: We see a cute kitty, you want to pet him?

00:19:40.313 --> 00:19:41.833
Maggie O'Brian: I definitely get the instinct.

00:19:41.833 --> 00:19:46.673
Maggie O'Brian: I'm very good at fighting it, but I definitely understand the urge to reach for the kitty.

00:19:46.673 --> 00:19:58.513
Maggie O'Brian: I also think there's a potential general misconception that if a cat is accepting pets, and even if they weren't asking for them, that they probably really liked that and walked away like, oh my gosh, that was so nice.

00:19:58.653 --> 00:20:04.473
Maggie O'Brian: But generally, a cat that's just tolerating a pet wouldn't be a win for that cat.

00:20:04.473 --> 00:20:14.933
Maggie O'Brian: So you want it, when it's voluntary on their end, meaning they come up and they, you know, nudge or they put their little chin or their cheek next to you and what pets, then that's kind of an everybody wins.

00:20:14.933 --> 00:20:21.153
Maggie O'Brian: And that's gonna make them more trusting of strangers and certainly more trusting of that person in the future.

00:20:21.153 --> 00:20:22.553
Michelle Fern: Okay, thank you.

00:20:22.553 --> 00:20:36.253
Michelle Fern: Maggie, what do we do with our cats that are aggressive and tucking our guests, which is definitely difficult whether you have your family coming over or a service person coming over?

00:20:36.253 --> 00:20:47.373
Maggie O'Brian: Yeah, so those are more tricky and as you indicated before, cats can carry disease in their mouth and their claws, so it's not a safe situation if they're going up and being aggressive.

00:20:47.373 --> 00:20:59.713
Maggie O'Brian: We generally say if you're having a party, if it's Christmas, Thanksgiving, if it's a plumber that's coming over to do things, those are situations where we're just gonna separate the cat entirely.

00:20:59.713 --> 00:21:01.673
Maggie O'Brian: It's just not gonna be worth the safety risk.

00:21:01.673 --> 00:21:10.713
Maggie O'Brian: The cat is probably gonna be stressed out during any attempt to interact with those bigger gatherings, so it's gonna be best for everyone just to separate them.

00:21:10.713 --> 00:21:21.873
Maggie O'Brian: If it's a person that you want them to get to know, so it's a friend that moved to town that you think is gonna be over all the time, or if it's a new significant other, then we can do slow intros.

00:21:22.013 --> 00:21:31.793
Maggie O'Brian: It typically just needs to be, the cat needs to be harnessed trained, which is its own separate thing that you need to work on individually, but it absolutely can be done.

00:21:31.793 --> 00:21:37.853
Maggie O'Brian: And then again, we work on, visitor comes in door, oh my gosh, it's our new friend, Steve.

00:21:37.853 --> 00:21:41.213
Maggie O'Brian: We love Steve, and talk to them really nicely.

00:21:41.213 --> 00:21:52.993
Maggie O'Brian: Steve throws a bunch of snacks at the kitty cat, regardless of if the kitty cat is showing aggression, we're just trying to make this kitty like the theoretical Steve in the scenario.

00:21:52.993 --> 00:22:01.593
Maggie O'Brian: So you try to build up that rapport, and sometimes it takes a few visits, but with repetition, you try to get them to the point where it's like, oh yeah, that's that person I like.

00:22:01.593 --> 00:22:05.673
Michelle Fern: And a lot of this has to do with the fact that cats are very territorial.

00:22:05.673 --> 00:22:10.493
Maggie O'Brian: Yeah, they can be much more inclined to be offensive in their own space.

00:22:10.493 --> 00:22:22.553
Maggie O'Brian: And so you'll get an occasional cat that it's usually directed at other animals, but you'll get an occasional cat that anyone coming on the property, they're ready to go and tell that person to go away.

00:22:22.553 --> 00:22:31.853
Michelle Fern: I think it's an amazing gift with anyone that when they're able to understand the mind of a cat, as you apparently do, because they are tricky.

00:22:31.853 --> 00:22:32.573
Maggie O'Brian: They are.

00:22:32.573 --> 00:22:35.873
Maggie O'Brian: They're very misunderstood little kitties.

00:22:35.873 --> 00:22:50.553
Maggie O'Brian: And I think they deserve all the effort that you and people like you put into trying to help increase understanding of why they're doing the things that they do and how we can best help them live their best life when they're with us.

00:22:50.553 --> 00:22:53.293
Michelle Fern: Well, I think what you're doing is amazing.

00:22:53.293 --> 00:23:03.073
Michelle Fern: Where can people find more info about virtual veterinary medicine and get started with what you have available?

00:23:03.073 --> 00:23:03.313
Maggie O'Brian: Yeah.

00:23:03.313 --> 00:23:06.493
Maggie O'Brian: So our website is based on the name of the business.

00:23:06.493 --> 00:23:08.733
Maggie O'Brian: So it's Virtual Veterinary Behavior Medicine.

00:23:08.793 --> 00:23:14.213
Maggie O'Brian: So the website is VVBM and then it's.vet, V-E-T.

00:23:14.213 --> 00:23:31.653
Maggie O'Brian: You could also just Google Virtual Veterinary Behavior Medicine or my name, and then it'll take you to that site and it goes through the services, how we incorporate primary care, what appointments look like, and then obviously more than welcome to email us at any point with questions or call our office with any questions.

00:23:31.653 --> 00:23:33.693
Maggie O'Brian: We're happy to answer anything.

00:23:33.693 --> 00:23:35.313
Maggie O'Brian: And that's the way you find us.

00:23:35.313 --> 00:23:36.933
Michelle Fern: Maggie, thank you so much for coming.

00:23:36.933 --> 00:23:37.673
Michelle Fern: I'm Cattitude.

00:23:37.753 --> 00:23:40.833
Michelle Fern: I so appreciate all your information.

00:23:40.833 --> 00:23:45.973
Michelle Fern: Folks, be sure to Google Virtual Veterinary Behavior Medicine.

00:23:45.973 --> 00:23:56.293
Michelle Fern: And we will have on the page for this episode on petliferadio.com under Cattitude, we will have a bio of Maggie and as well as a link to the website.

00:23:56.293 --> 00:23:58.293
Michelle Fern: Again, Maggie, thank you so much.

00:23:58.293 --> 00:24:00.293
Maggie O'Brian: Thank you so much for having me, Michelle.

00:24:00.293 --> 00:24:01.893
Michelle Fern: I hope you all enjoyed the show.

00:24:01.893 --> 00:24:03.053
Michelle Fern: I wanna thank Dr.

00:24:03.053 --> 00:24:08.013
Michelle Fern: Maggie O'Brian of Virtual Veterinary Behavior Medicine for coming on Cattitude.

00:24:08.013 --> 00:24:10.253
Michelle Fern: Thanks to all the listeners of Cattitude.

00:24:10.253 --> 00:24:13.893
Michelle Fern: I so appreciate that you've been so loyal for so long.

00:24:13.893 --> 00:24:15.173
Michelle Fern: Thank you, thank you.

00:24:15.173 --> 00:24:16.933
Michelle Fern: Thanks to my cat crew.

00:24:16.933 --> 00:24:18.693
Michelle Fern: They teach me things all the time.

00:24:18.693 --> 00:24:20.873
Michelle Fern: Thank you, Dennis, Molly and Charlotte.

00:24:20.873 --> 00:24:25.273
Michelle Fern: Thanks of course to my amazing producer, Mark Winter.

00:24:25.273 --> 00:24:30.753
Michelle Fern: He works magic so that our podcasts sound amazing when you're listening.

00:24:30.753 --> 00:24:32.053
Michelle Fern: So thank you, Mark.

00:24:32.053 --> 00:24:34.773
Michelle Fern: And hey, remember, lose the attitude.

00:24:34.773 --> 00:24:36.733
Michelle Fern: You have Cattitude.

00:24:36.733 --> 00:24:38.073
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00:24:38.073 --> 00:24:40.113
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00:24:40.113 --> 00:24:41.833
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00:24:42.133 --> 00:24:42.753
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