Cattitude

BIO:

Justine A. Lee, DVM, DACVECC, DABT is the CEO and founder of VETgirl, a subscription-based podcast service offering RACE-approved continuing education. She is a board-certified veterinary specialist in both emergency critical care (DACVECC) and toxicologist (DABT). Currently, she works as a criticalist at Animal Emergency & Referral Center of Minnesota, and is a consultant for ELEVATE DVM, ASPCA Animal Poison Control Center, and several other veterinary companies. Previously, she was the Associate Director of Veterinary Services for an Animal Poison Control Center in Minneapolis (2013-2009) and on faculty at the University of Minnesota Veterinary Medical Center (2003-2008).

Dr. Lee graduated from Virginia Tech with a BS in Animal Sciences, and then obtained her veterinary degree at Cornell University. She pursued her internship at Angell Memorial Animal Hospital, which is affiliated with the MSPCA. In addition, she has also completed an emergency fellowship and residency at the University of Pennsylvania.

Currently, she is 1 of approximately 450 board-certified veterinary specialists world wide in emergency and critical care, and is a Diplomate of the American College of Veterinary Emergency and Critical Care (DACVECC). Dr. Lee is also a Diplomate of the American Board of Toxicology (DABT). Dr. Lee has been published in numerous veterinary journals, including the Journal of American Veterinary Medical Association, the Journal of Veterinary Emergency Critical Care, the Journal of Veterinary Internal Medicine, and the Journal of the American Animal Hospital Association. Dr. Lee is one of the editors and primary authors of Blackwell’s Five-Minute Veterinary Consult Clinical Companion: Small Animal Toxicology textbook. She is also one of the editors for the Veterinary Clinics of North America: Emergency Medicine textbook (Elsevier, 2013).

Dr. Lee is the author of two humorous pet reference books entitled It’s a Dog’s Life…but It’s Your Carpet and It’s a Cat’s World . . . You Just Live in It. She has also published several veterinary book chapters, and has been aired on radio and television to promote preventative medicine, animal health, and the overall well-being of pets. Dr. Lee is the former contributor/blogger to Prevention magazine, PetMD: The Daily Vet, and Pet Health Network. She currently blogs for Voyce, a wellness monitor collar for dogs. Dr. Lee has been featured on NBC Weekend Today, The Rachael Ray Show, WCCO, Minnesota Public Radio, and various other TV and radio engagements.  Dr. Lee lectures throughout the world on emergency, critical care, and toxicology and was recently honored with the North American Veterinary Conference Small Animal Speaker of the Year(in both 2011 and 2015) and the Association des Médecines Vétérinaires du Québec (2012). When Dr. Lee is not working in the ER, she is playing ultimate Frisbee or ice hockey, hiking with her new puppy, traveling, running, gardening, or reading. Dr. Lee’s three kids include:

• • A rescued grey and white tabby cat (abandoned with head trauma) named after a former Bostonian-Irish-owned patient, “Seamus”
• • A rescued tortie cat named “Lily”
• • A rescued pit bull mix named “Milo”

Transcript:

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Announcer: This is Pet Life Radio.

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Announcer: Let's talk pets.

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Michelle Fern: Hello, feline friends, this is Michelle Fern, your host on Cattitude.

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Michelle Fern: And today we're gonna talk about Halloween safety for your kitties.

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Michelle Fern: Stay tuned, we're gonna be right back.

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Michelle Fern: Hey, Michelle Fern here, and you know saving cats is near and dear to my heart.

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Michelle Fern: Did you know that there is an estimated 70 to 100 million free roaming cats in the United States?

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Announcer: Let's Talk Pets on petliferadio.com.

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Michelle Fern: Welcome back, everyone.

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Michelle Fern: I am beyond excited and in awe of my next guest.

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Michelle Fern: Well, first, I'm very proud that she is in the Pet Life Radio family.

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Michelle Fern: Dr.

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Michelle Fern: Justine Lee is the host of ER Vet, which is super popular.

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Michelle Fern: She is an emergency veterinary specialist and toxologist.

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Michelle Fern: She's been on NBC Weekend Today, Rachael Ray, and many, many more TV shows.

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Michelle Fern: She's also a criticalist at an animal emergency referral center in the Twin Cities, Minnesota.

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Michelle Fern: Welcome, Dr.

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Michelle Fern: Lee.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Thank you so much for having me on.

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Dr. Justine Lee: I really appreciate it.

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Michelle Fern: I'm very excited to have you, and I just think you're amazing.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So, you're too sweet.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Thank you.

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Michelle Fern: So, let's get to it.

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Michelle Fern: You know, you're an ER Vet.

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Michelle Fern: I'm sure you've seen so many things over the years, you know, with animal emergencies.

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Michelle Fern: And it seems like Halloween is always a dangerous time for cats.

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Dr. Justine Lee: It is.

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Dr. Justine Lee: You know, all of the holidays are associated with poisonings.

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Dr. Justine Lee: I would say Easter is actually probably the most dangerous because of Easter lilies when it comes to poisonous plants, but any holiday, there's going to be unusual decorations, different foods around and different smells.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So, yeah, unfortunately, we will see more poisonings in dogs and cats during any kind of holiday.

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Michelle Fern: Oh, you think about that and it's like, oh, you know, it's just, it's hard to even imagine, but it happens.

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Michelle Fern: What are some of the things that we can keep away from our cats that like, I didn't even know about Easter lilies of affecting cats.

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Michelle Fern: And especially around, you know, since we have coming up Halloween and maybe a little bit toward the other holidays, just what are some of the things that, you know, people wouldn't think of that they should really be aware of?

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Dr. Justine Lee: Sure.

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Dr. Justine Lee: I always say plants.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Plants are the number one poisoning that I worry about in cats.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And that's because, to be quite honest, cats are so different from dogs.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Cats are never going to eat large amounts of raisins or grapes or chocolate or other poisonings like that.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So while Halloween is going to be more of a danger for dogs with chocolate, cats are too dignified to eat chocolate.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So I'm going to say plants.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Most of the time when we see fall plants, they're usually chrysanthemum or mum plants.

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Dr. Justine Lee: But if you ever bring a fresh cut flower bouquet into your household, whether or not it's from a florist or from your yard, you never want to bring in anything from the lilium or hemorrhagalis species.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So these are really beautiful big blooms.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Even the greens are poisonous.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Two or three leaves can cause severe kidney failure in a cat.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And most plants, honestly, aren't going to be that big of a deal.

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Dr. Justine Lee: I always say check ASPCA Animal Poison Control Center.

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Dr. Justine Lee: They have an amazing pet poisoning plant section.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And you can just look it up and see what plants are dangerous, but I'm going to go with plants still being the most dangerous when it comes to any kind of danger, because cats love chewing on any kind of plant material.

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Dr. Justine Lee: The second danger that I worry about around Halloween time is actually glow sticks and glow jewelry.

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Dr. Justine Lee: A lot of people are using this as part of their children's costume.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And again, the glowing jewelry just adds that extra light.

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Dr. Justine Lee: It glows in the dark, but it is poisonous to cats.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Cats are super curious, so they see this glowing thing in the dark.

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Dr. Justine Lee: They're gonna chew on that plastic.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And thankfully, it's not too, too bad, but there's a chemical that causes a glow that's really, really bitter.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And so if a cat chews on it, it can cause profuse drooling, pawing at the mouth, vomiting, not wanting to eat.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Thankfully, if you see this, you can actually flush out your cat's mouth or just give something really tasty, like canned tuna in water or even a little bit of milk.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And then I usually recommend turning off the light and making sure your cat doesn't glow anywhere.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And if you do see that they're glowing, you want to make sure to use a damp terry cloth and bathe and wipe off that chemical.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So that's the second poison that I see the most during Halloween.

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Dr. Justine Lee: first is plants.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Second is glow stick jewelry.

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Michelle Fern: That is incredible because I would have no idea.

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Michelle Fern: And I guess most people out there would have no idea.

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Michelle Fern: And it's funny, but it's not, I mean, your cat might glow, but I could see what you mean if it dripped on your cat's fur or something and how cats clean themselves.

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Michelle Fern: You want to make sure that there's none of that toxic glowing stuff anywhere near your cats.

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Michelle Fern: What about you hear on Halloween so many crazy stories of people doing crazy things with cats.

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Michelle Fern: I would think if you have indoor, outdoor, you don't want to keep them outdoor.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Yeah, that's such a great point, especially if you have a black cat.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And of course, while this isn't a quote poisoning danger, you never know who's out there that's going to harm a cat.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And especially because of the, you know, Halloween association with witches and black cats.

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Dr. Justine Lee: I always say on Halloween night, because there's so much traffic going on, there's so many strangers coming to your door that are knocking on the door, ringing the doorbell, it's going to stress out your cat.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So keep them in a room just to make sure they don't dart out the front door, especially if you have a black cat, keep them inside because you don't know if anyone's going to cause harm to them.

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Michelle Fern: Okay.

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Michelle Fern: And even though this is kind of a Halloween show, but besides just Halloween and leading into holiday time, what are some ways that we could keep our cats safer and also keep our cats less stressed?

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Michelle Fern: Because I know that they like their environment and they don't like a lot of change in their environment.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Sure.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So I would say along the Halloween dangers, one of the big poisonings I see between Halloween and the holidays is actually liquid potpourri.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And there are certain chemicals in the house that dogs, it's not going to be a big deal, but because cats have an altered liver metabolism, they can't handle certain chemicals.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And so the biggest one is liquid potpourri, or really concentrated essential oils.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So during this time of the year, people may light candles like pumpkin spice candles, pumpkin spice potpourri pots.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And unfortunately, when they do that, if their cat takes even a few licks out of it, it causes severe corrosive burns to the mouth, esophagus and stomach.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So if you have a cat, absolutely no simmer potpourri pots, I'm sorry.

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Dr. Justine Lee: You can't have them in your house.

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Dr. Justine Lee: You're going to have to use a different type of air freshener instead.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And that's because again, it can cause these bad burns.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So if a cat even takes one or two licks, we can see profuse drooling, pawing at the mouth, difficulty breathing, not eating, and really rarely those liquid popery chemicals or essential oils can actually cause liver failure or lung failure.

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Dr. Justine Lee: The fourth way I would keep your cat safe during this time of the year is be careful when you have Halloween costumes.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Cats, they're so dignified, they don't want to wear a Halloween costume.

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Dr. Justine Lee: They don't want to wear any kind of Christmas ornament or Christmas outfit.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And we do want to be really careful because if you put something on your cat, it could actually choke them or if it's really tight fitting, stress them out.

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Dr. Justine Lee: If it has certain parts attached to the costume like a long stringy strand, if your cat chews that and swallows that, that can actually lead to what we call a linear foreign body.

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Dr. Justine Lee: They swallow it and that long stringy material can actually get stuck in the intestines and saw through the intestines.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So I'm not a huge believer in decorating your cat during this time of the year.

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Dr. Justine Lee: They really usually don't like to wear costumes.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Some cats do, don't get me wrong.

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Dr. Justine Lee: But if your cat's running away from you or pawing at it and trying to get out of that outfit, I always say, one in doubt, it's not worth putting your cat in a dangerous costume.

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Michelle Fern: Very good tip.

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Michelle Fern: That's why you see so many of these little teeny dogs with clothes and clothing lines.

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Michelle Fern: You don't see too many clothing lines for cats.

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Michelle Fern: Although, I did get my Maine Coon into a sweater once, but that was about it.

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Michelle Fern: And he was moonwalking, so I don't think he liked it on him.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Oh no.

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Michelle Fern: But it was just for a photo op, so it wasn't too bad.

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Michelle Fern: And it was right off of him.

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Michelle Fern: He has Maine Coon, he has enough fur, he doesn't need that.

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Michelle Fern: So what are some other tips?

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Dr. Justine Lee: Yeah, my last tip would be, when it comes to minimizing the stress for your cat, they are happier locked in your bedroom with their own litter box, with food and water, the day of Halloween or the night of Halloween, or as we're approaching the holidays during Thanksgiving, when family's coming over, or during the holidays, when you have a bunch of family over, they don't want to deal with that stress.

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Dr. Justine Lee: It's better to keep them in a quiet room.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And there's a couple of things you can do to minimize that stress.

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Dr. Justine Lee: I love the product FeelAway, F-E-L-I-W-A-Y, and FeelAway is a natural pheromone that is designed to minimize stress in your cat.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And you can spray it on a towel, you can spray it on a bed, and they even have FeelAway diffusers.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And that naturally will minimize the stress.

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Dr. Justine Lee: The other thing you can do is play some white noise.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So play some music in the background, nothing too loud, a radio talk show, just so they can have any kind of noise in the environment drown out.

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Dr. Justine Lee: For Halloween night, if they constantly are hearing the doorbell, they may get really scared by that.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And we don't want to chance your cat running outside.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Halloween is one of those nights, just like July 4th, where I'm worried that your cat's gonna dart out.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So if you have an indoor or indoor outdoor cat, please keep them indoor, especially on holidays.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And then I always recommend making sure your cat has a collar, identification tags, or even a microchip.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Because if your cat's lost, that ID tag or that microchip can really help make sure you find your cat.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So those are my biggest tips.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Make sure to keep poisonous plants out of the household.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And again, during the fall, we don't see as many Easter lilies, but we can still see certain types of poisonous plants.

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Dr. Justine Lee: The second thing I always recommend is making sure to keep certain Halloween pet dangers at a reach.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So a lot of times it's going to be that glow stick jewelry or costume jewelry from your kid.

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Dr. Justine Lee: It may be that liquid potpourri simmer pot.

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Dr. Justine Lee: You know, cats aren't going to eat the grapes, raisins, chocolates that we see in dogs.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So that's not going to be that big of a deal.

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Dr. Justine Lee: But then we also want to make sure we're keeping our cats safe by making sure we're putting them in a costume only if they're comfortable, only if they tolerate it.

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Dr. Justine Lee: We make sure that it doesn't have anything poisonous or dangerous on it, like long ribbons or even metallic pieces that they can swallow.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And that can result in zinc or lead poisoning.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And lastly, keep them inside, keep them in a quiet room.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Consider using a natural pheromone like FeelAway, or there are a couple of cats that are so stressed out.

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Dr. Justine Lee: You can even talk to your veterinarian about certain sedatives or anti-anxiety medications that they can use at home.

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Dr. Justine Lee: I always say the safest way of keeping your cat safe is by pre-programming your cell phone, your GPS with your veterinarian and your emergency veterinarian, so you know how to get there and you know who to call in an emergency.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And if you think your cat was potentially poisoned, maybe they chewed into that glow stick jewelry.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Make sure you call the ASPCA Animal Poison Control Center at 888-426-4435 for life-saving advice.

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Dr. Justine Lee: They're the only non-profit Animal Poison Control Center in the world, and they can help you even from home if you think your cat was poisoned.

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Michelle Fern: Okay, we're going to be right back after this message, and I have just a couple more questions for Dr.

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Michelle Fern: Lee right after this message.

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Pam Johnson-Bennett: Pet Life Radio.

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Announcer: petliferadio.com.

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Michelle Fern: Welcome back, everyone.

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Michelle Fern: We are talking to Dr.

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Michelle Fern: Lee, who hosts ER Vet, with some very, very good tips for your cat on Halloween and other holidays.

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Michelle Fern: Dr.

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Michelle Fern: Lee, you mentioned the Animal Poison Control Center.

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Michelle Fern: That is a fabulous, wonderful tip, because most people don't even know they exist.

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Michelle Fern: You know, your animal's sick, something happens, and you hope there is an emergency clinic nearby, but not everybody lives near one.

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Michelle Fern: So that's a great tip.

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Michelle Fern: And so, say I find my cat choking or foaming at the mouth, it seems obvious, but what are some, you know, things that I would notice if my cat is, I mean, I know obvious with the foaming and all that, but what are some other things I would notice on my cat that would tell me, okay, he or she is, something is wrong?

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Dr. Justine Lee: Sure.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Well, first of all, I will say that when it comes to any kind of poisoning, the sooner you find out that your cat is poisoned, even if they're not showing any signs, the sooner you can get them to a veterinarian, the less expensive and the less dangerous it is for your cat.

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Dr. Justine Lee: It's really important.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Most people think, it's not going to be a big deal, my cats aren't showing any signs, but even if they take one or two licks of something, it can result in severe poisoning.

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Dr. Justine Lee: I always say, you don't always want to check on Google because you might not find the right information on the Internet.

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Dr. Justine Lee: When in doubt, it's not worth risking your cat's life, call the ASPCA Animal Poison Control if needed.

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Dr. Justine Lee: I will say, there are very few poisons that, quote, kill acutely.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Most of them take hours to days before we'll start to see clinical signs.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So again, when in doubt, call your vet, your ER Vet or ASPCA immediately, so you can find out if it's poisonous or not.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Once we do that, there are some things that aren't going to be as big of a deal.

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Dr. Justine Lee: There are certain household plants that honestly aren't that dangerous, but when in doubt, you always want to call for advice.

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Dr. Justine Lee: I will say that 90 percent of plants out there just cause some bombing and diarrhea.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So you never know unless you're botanist, if they're going to be poisonous, if you're a veterinary toxicologist.

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Dr. Justine Lee: But if you notice some of these signs, your cat's hiding, your cat's drooling, your cat's pawing at the mouth, your cat is having difficulty breathing, your cat's not using the litter box appropriately, your cat vomits more than two to three times in a 24-hour period.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And those are signs you want to get to a vet right away.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And my general guideline is when in doubt, call an emergency vet in your area, because sometimes they can triage and answer those questions on the phone for you.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So great resources out there.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Just make sure that you're taking good care of your cat.

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Michelle Fern: Okay.

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Michelle Fern: And one quickie for up and coming.

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Michelle Fern: What about for Christmas trees?

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Michelle Fern: You know, decorations, cats go, you know, with tinsel and all of that.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Yeah, that's a great question.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So if you have a Christmas tree, I'm going to say there's a couple of things that I want to make sure that you avoid.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And one of them is, you said it's spot on Michelle, is tinsel.

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Dr. Justine Lee: If you own a cat, I'm sorry, but you're not allowed to have any tinsel in the house.

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Dr. Justine Lee: You're not allowed to have any long pieces of ribbon.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And the main reason why is again, cats are so curious that they're going to go ahead and look for that piece of tinsel and chew on it.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And when they do that, that tinsel gets swallowed and sometimes it gets stuck at the base of your cat's tongue or in their stomach.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And again, this causes a linear foreign body that can actually saw through your cat's intestines.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And that results in a life-threatening septic perinitis, a really severe infection in the abdomen.

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Dr. Justine Lee: The second thing I say when it comes to Christmas trees is, you want to make sure that it's well-secured.

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Dr. Justine Lee: In other words, if you're hanging up a tree, your cat, of course, is going to try to climb up the base.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So you want to pick a sturdy base at the bottom of your Christmas tree to prevent it from falling.

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Dr. Justine Lee: I also recommend putting in a ceiling hook, like what people use for hanging up plants, and then securing the top of the Christmas tree with thick, clear fishing line.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So something like monofilament.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So something really thick that will help secure the tree in place so it doesn't topple over.

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Dr. Justine Lee: The other thing is make sure you're using the right ornaments or decorations.

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Dr. Justine Lee: If you're going to do ornaments, make sure to hang them ideally on the top two-thirds of the trees so your cat doesn't bathe them off the bottom.

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Dr. Justine Lee: You're going to ideally avoid any kind of glass ornaments in case your cat knocks them down.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So plastic is probably fine.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And if you have a young kitten, I'm going to recommend avoiding Christmas lights.

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Dr. Justine Lee: This sounds like a downer, but sometimes cats are so curious they're going to chew on those electric cords.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And this can result in severe burns in the mouth or even some type of what we call non-cardiogenic pulmonary edema within the lung.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And this causes severe difficulty breathing.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Sometimes you can use bitter apple or other kinds of sprays that are anti-chewing puppy sprays to avoid your cat from chewing on it.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So that's probably the safest thing to do.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And then lastly, I'm going to say location, location, location.

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Dr. Justine Lee: When it comes to putting your Christmas tree in the right spot, you want to make sure you're not putting it by any launching points where your cat can jump.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So don't put it right next to your cat tree, right?

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Dr. Justine Lee: So put it in a corner of the room where it's not going to topple over, where your cat can't launch off from the fireplace mantle.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And ideally, just make sure you're securing the tree, you're picking the right decorations, and you're pet proofing during the holidays appropriately.

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Michelle Fern: Oh, this has been great information.

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Michelle Fern: What is the phone number again if somebody has to call the emergency?

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Michelle Fern: What was it, the ASPCA?

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Dr. Justine Lee: Yeah, if they have an emergency, I always say, program your cell phone right now with the ASPCA Animal Poison Control Center's 24-hour hotline at 888-426-4435.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Or you can just Google ASPCA Animal Poison Control Center.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Now keep in mind, there's a small fee associated with it.

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Dr. Justine Lee: It's a $65 fee, but that $65 fee includes all follow up, even for your veterinarian to call, as many times as they need to regarding management in that case.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And again, they're the only non-profit animal poison control out there.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And that may actually save you a really expensive emergency room visit.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So again, really helpful to call or call your veterinarian first.

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Michelle Fern: Okay, wonderful.

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Michelle Fern: Thank you so much for coming on Cattitude and sharing all this wonderful information for how to keep your cat safe through, you know, Halloween and beyond.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Thank you so much for having me on, Michelle.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Absolutely love your show at Cattitude because I'm a total cat person.

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Michelle Fern: Ah, Dr.

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Michelle Fern: Lee, you are.

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Michelle Fern: Well, great information for how to take care of your cat, if anything should come up, for Halloween and beyond.

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Michelle Fern: So great information.

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Michelle Fern: Make sure you definitely have the number of the ASPCA in your phone.

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Michelle Fern: I'm going to make sure I have that number right away.

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Michelle Fern: And it will also be on the show page for this episode.

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Michelle Fern: So if you didn't catch it or you're doing something while you're, you know, running or biking when you're listening or driving, don't worry.

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Michelle Fern: It's going to be on the show page.

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Michelle Fern: A huge thank you to Dr.

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Michelle Fern: Lee.

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Michelle Fern: Be sure to check out Dr.

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Michelle Fern: Lee's show on Pet Life Radio.

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Michelle Fern: It's called ER Vet.

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Michelle Fern: I'd like to thank my cat crew, Molly and Charlotte and Dennis, who are going to be so safe during the holidays.

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Michelle Fern: Now that I have even more knowledge about how to take care of them and make sure they're not hurt or nothing happens during the holidays, and thanks to everyone listening to Cattitude for, you know, listening and writing in your comments and giving me great feedback.

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Michelle Fern: And thanks to my producer, Mark Winter, for making me and my guest sound great.

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Michelle Fern: Now remember, lose the attitude, have cattitude.

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