Going Back to the Future of Fish Medicine with Aquarium Fish Medicine Pioneer, Award-Winning Veterinarian, and Author, Dr. Greg Lewbart
Fish medicine, now mainstream, became a recognized veterinary specialty through the American Veterinary Medical Association in 2023. But many decades ago, few vets treated pet fish and hobbyists were on their own. My guest today, Dr. Greg Lewbart was one of those vets. A foremost pioneer of aquarium fish medicine and both an award-winning veterinarian and author, Greg is a Professor at North Carolina State University and has been my mentor and good friend since the 1980s. Join us, as Greg looks back on the early days and forward to the future of fish medicine.
Listen to Episode #97 Now:
BIO:
Greg has a B.A. in biology from Gettysburg College, an M.S. in biology with a concentration in marine biology from Northeastern University, and a V.M.D. from the University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine (1988). He worked for a large wholesaler of ornamental fishes before joining the faculty at the NC State College of Veterinary Medicine in 1993, where he is Professor of Aquatic, Wildlife, and Zoological Medicine. He is a diplomate of the American and European Colleges of Zoological Medicine. He’s authored or co-authored over 200 scientific articles, 30 book chapters, and edited or co-edited seven veterinary textbooks. Greg has made 28 trips to the Galápagos doing conservation work on a wide variety of native species. He is also currently involved with field research in the Turks and Caicos, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, and Cayman Brac. He is the faculty founder of the Turtle Rescue Team (1996-), a student led wildlife clinic that has treated almost 8,000 patients and generated almost 30 peer-reviewed publications. He and his wife, Dr. Diane Deresienski (also a veterinary professor), live in North Carolina.
Transcript:
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Announcer: This is Pet Life Radio.
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Announcer: Let's Talk Pets.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Welcome to Aquariumania.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: I'm your host, Dr.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Roy Yanong, speaking to you from the University of Florida, IFES Tropical Aquaculture Laboratory.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Thanks for joining us.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Fish medicine, now mainstream, became a recognized veterinary specialty through the American Veterinary Medical Association in 2023.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: But many decades ago, few vets treated pet fish and hobbyists were on their own.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: My guest today, Dr.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Greg Lewbart, was one of those vets.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: A foremost pioneer of aquarium fish medicine and both an award-winning veterinarian and author, Greg is a professor at North Carolina State University and has been my mentor and good friend since the 80s.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Join us as Greg looks back on the early days and forwards to the future of fish medicine.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: We'll be right back after these messages.
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Announcer: Let's Talk Pets on petliferadio.com.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Welcome back to Aquariumania on Pet Life Radio.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: My guest today is Dr.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Greg Lewbart, world-renowned aquatic and exotic veterinarian, professor, researcher, and author.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Hey, Greg.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: Hey, Roy, how's it going?
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Good, good.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: I kind of gave a little bit of info on how great you were in my intro earlier, but we're going to kind of delve into all that a little bit more.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: But before that, I wanted to get a little personal, as I always do, talk a little bit about your early years.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: Sure.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: So, what and who were some of your childhood influences that got you interested in nature and aquatics?
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: Yeah, I guess it was really my parents and my brothers, my family.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: We spent, from the time I was five until I was in high school, we spent part or most of every summer in Maine vacationing.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: I was really lucky.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: My dad was a physician and researcher, steroid chemist, so for about 15 years he was on NSF funding, which meant in the summer he could take off.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And so my brothers and I, I'm oldest of four, we were immersed in nature from an early age.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: It was mostly in the mountains of Maine, but also once in a while at the coast.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I was really drawn to the marine environment.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: I think that is the big main influencing factor on my interest in nature and animals.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And we weren't dog people or we had a pet cat and I had a pet guinea pig.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And when those animals went to the veterinarian, that made a big impact on me too.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: But you took such good care of them that they probably didn't go that often, I assume.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: Oh, yeah, it was 100% preventive care.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: If that included being hit by a car.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: So now tell us about your very first fish and your very first aquarium.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: Yeah, so that's a little bit of an interesting topic.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: I'm not a hobbyist.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And when I was, you know, probably eight or nine, I remember my mom got me a Cory catfish.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I had a Cory cat living in a goldfish bowl for a while.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: I don't think it was long.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: It was longer than a day and less than a year.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: We had a few goldfish, but I was never a hobbyist.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: I didn't keep aquariums.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: I didn't raise fish.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I didn't have my own aquarium until I was in veterinary school.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And even then, pretty modest, a couple 15 gallon tanks.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I don't have aquariums now.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: I have plenty of fish contact at work.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Oh, yeah, understandable.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: So with that said, do you remember anything?
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Did you ever visit any aquarium stores back in the day or when your when your mom was getting you these fish?
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Do you remember anything at all about how fish keeping was back then?
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: I do.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: I do.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: So this would have been in the 60s, late 60s.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: So there weren't any chain pet stores that I think there was Doctors Pet, which was kind of a chain, but there weren't the large stores that they are now like the super stores.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I remember I grew up in in a town called Willingborough, New Jersey.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: It's a Philadelphia suburb and sort of a bedroom community of Philadelphia.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And we had a mall called the Plaza, the Willingborough Plaza.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: My brothers and I would go every Saturday.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: My mom would give us each a buck.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: 50 cents was the movie and popcorn and then the rest we would use at the mall for candy and things.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: But there was a pet store and we always went through the pet store and looked at the fish and looked at the mice and the birds.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I just remember that pet stores were kind of what we call mom and pop back then.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And even when I was in veterinary school in the mid to late 80s, I worked at a little pet store in West Philadelphia after school and on weekends.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And that was also a small privately owned pet store.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: But the owner was really good about all in and all out management and keeping fish healthy.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: So let's move forward a little bit.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Now you obviously went to college.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: What did you study there and were there any experiences during those years that influenced you kind of on the path that you ended up taking?
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: Yeah.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: So I was a biology major.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: I got a BA in biology from Gettysburg College in 1981.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And really it was, I wasn't the greatest student to start out with.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: I was barely, barely hovering above academic probation.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: I never did dip into that area, but I could see it from where I was.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I got more serious about school.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: I wanted to be a veterinarian.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: I knew I needed to kind of get my academic ducks in a row.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I did slowly.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: But it was really my invertebrate zoology course with Dr.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: Robert Barnes that I think it's the pivotal moment in my career.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: It changed things completely for me.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: Because up until the fall of my senior year, I was getting by.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: I was doing better.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: But nothing had really kind of lit my fire like invertezo.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And for the first time in college, I was the student at the top of the class, first and only time, I'll say.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And in those days, Roy, they would post your name and your grade out on a bulletin board with your social security number for everybody to see.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: So I knew I was at the top.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: I was at the top because I loved it.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: I loved the professor, the way he taught.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: I loved the subject matter.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Barnes is a god, so that's amazing.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: Yeah, and he taught at Gettysburg for probably 40 years.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And it really changed my life.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: I went to the Duke Marine Lab with him on a field trip with a class.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: I went to Bermuda with a class.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And then that all happened when I was applying to veterinary school.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: So my backup plan was to go to graduate school and study marine biology.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And that's what I did.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And my master's was focused on marine invertebrates and specifically a little polychaete worm.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: But it was about that time, so this would have been the early 80s, 40 some years ago, that I saw fish as kind of an untapped area of the profession.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: I volunteered at the New England Aquarium while I was in Boston, and I learned to scuba dive.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And even though I've never had an Ichthyology class, I recognized fish as being pretty cool.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And then when I was in vet school and started working at the pet store, mainly to learn more about aquariology.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: So he worms and then fish now, you mentioned earlier, I guess that you had decided to become a vet, sounds like maybe grade school, is that right or, or let's go soon?
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: I really think when I was 14, I started volunteering for a local veterinarian named Dr.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: Bookman.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And so between 14 and 16, I volunteered.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And when I was 16, he hired me.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: So for three all through high school, I worked afternoons and on weekends at his clinic as a we're talking almost 50 years ago and things were different.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: So I would take out the trash, hold dogs, assistant surgery, do fecals, whatever needed to be done.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: That's awesome.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Now, just really briefly, I guess, what were you looking at with that polykeet?
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Dr. Roy Yanong: I think we talked about this here.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Your major professor, I ended up taking a class with many years later, I think Trish Morse, right?
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Dr. Roy Yanong: So which was kind of a coincidence before we kind of knew each other.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: Yeah.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: What did you study with this polykeet worm?
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: My advisor was a guy named Doc Reiser, Nathan Reiser, and he and Trish Morse, who you mentioned, were fundamental in starting the Marine Science Institute at in the Haunt Mass, Northeastern's Marine Lab.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: So I studied mostly ultrastructure or transmission and scanning electron microscopy anatomy of this little interstitial polykeet, which means interstitial is an animal that's so small, it lives between sand grains.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: So these worms were maybe five millimeters long and, you know, 100 microns wide.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I was studying their head anatomy and some glandular structures based on my advisor's ideas and hypotheses on these.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I took malacology, the study of mollusks, with Dr.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: Morse.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: That's awesome.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Yeah.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: We took the same class, probably, because we went up to...
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: Amazing.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: It was quite ahead and everything, so I guess fast forward now to veterinary school.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: What opportunities were there in vet school when you were going through for fish medicine?
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Dr. Roy Yanong: And did you want to maybe mention any mentors you had at the time?
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: Yeah, quite a bit, actually.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And really, the Penn had what they called the core elective curriculum.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: So I started in 1984, so almost exactly 40 years ago.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And we had a course that third years took called Fish Diseases.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: It was an elective.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: You probably had it too.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: I took that and then I went to Aquavet after my second year at Woods Hole.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And my mentors then were Dr.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: Bill Medway, William Medway and Dr.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: Don Apt.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And it's funny because in the early 80s, 82, 83, when I volunteered at the aquarium and I was telling people, I'm going to go to vet school and I'm going to be an aquarium vet.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And they said, well, you need to track down three people, Joe Jirassi, Bill Medway and Don Apt.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And they all had a connection to UPenn.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: Don Apt and Dr.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: Jirassi were graduates and Medway was a professor there starting in the late 50s.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And they all, especially Jirassi and Medway, some of the early veterinarians, along with Sam Ridgway, working on marine mammals.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: But it was really hard to work with marine mammals and to get your hands on them, to even do externships or shadow as a student.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: So that's when I took the fish disease class and thought, you know, I don't really know a lot about fish.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: I need to learn.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And what better way to learn than to work at a little pet store where I could see the species, learn about water quality, life support systems and the industry.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: So I had some other mentors.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: Dr.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: Chuck Newton made a big impact on me, an orthopedic surgeon.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: Matty Hendricks, who was a pathologist at Penn, who would oversee the fish course for a long time.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: Yeah, I'm glad you asked.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: So we're going to go even a little bit faster forward to your first job.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: And I know it was kind of a really cool thing.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: You were a fish vet right out of vet school.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Can you tell us a little bit about that?
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: Oh, yeah.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: It's fun to talk about it and look back on it.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: So here I am.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: It's April of 1988.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: I'm a month from graduating.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And the only prospect I had, I was applying for a NIH postdoc at Woods Hole with Dr.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: Aft and Dr.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: Lew Leibovitz to do horseshoe crab research.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: So I had submitted this NIH postdoc proposal that was a three-year deal, but it didn't get funded.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: But the pet store, Tradewinds, still there, different ownership, I think.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: The company that sold them fish was called O'Byrne Tropical, and a guy named David O'Byrne owned this operation.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And 35, 40 years ago, we didn't have Petco's and PetSmart's.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: Walmarts weren't selling fish.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: So a lot of those other mom-and-pop pet stores I talk about would buy their fish from wholesalers like O'Byrne's.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: So they would buy boxes of fish from Asia and South America and Florida.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And then a pet store, I need 20 Neons and 10 Plicos and 20 Angelfish, and they could buy them.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: The wholesaler would mark them up.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I remember he was selling about $6 million worth of fish a year, and that was in the late 1980s.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And so he heard there was this vet student at Tradewinds that was cutting up fish and diagnosing diseases.
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Dr. Greg Lewbart: And he asked me to look at some of his fish, and I did.
00:14:12.139 --> 00:14:16.739
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And then he said, I want to take you out to dinner and make you a job offer.
00:14:16.919 --> 00:14:23.119
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I thought, okay, so he took me to this kind of fancy men's club in Philadelphia called the Vesper Club.
00:14:23.379 --> 00:14:31.539
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And, you know, I was 28 years old, and I remember having a couple gin martinis that were really good.
00:14:31.799 --> 00:14:33.839
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And he said, I want to offer you a job.
00:14:33.859 --> 00:14:35.719
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And he asked me what I wanted.
00:14:35.959 --> 00:14:42.079
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And, you know, I had kind of prepped and talked to my lawyer brother and friends are like, Oh, man, you got to ask for a lot.
00:14:42.099 --> 00:14:45.119
Dr. Greg Lewbart: You got to ask for, I don't know, a lot of money back then.
00:14:45.599 --> 00:14:47.499
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And he didn't make me an offer.
00:14:47.519 --> 00:14:48.519
Dr. Greg Lewbart: He said, Well, what do you want?
00:14:48.539 --> 00:14:50.219
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So I gave him this really high number.
00:14:50.839 --> 00:14:52.339
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And he didn't flinch.
00:14:52.679 --> 00:14:58.179
Dr. Greg Lewbart: But he said, Well, how about if we start here and I give you a $5,000 raise every six months.
00:14:58.379 --> 00:15:00.719
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And if you're with me in two years, you'll get to that number.
00:15:00.939 --> 00:15:01.879
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I said, sold.
00:15:02.199 --> 00:15:03.559
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And so that was it.
00:15:03.679 --> 00:15:05.499
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I started in May.
00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:06.919
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I graduated in May.
00:15:07.059 --> 00:15:18.879
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I worked for him for a little while, took a trip to Europe and then stayed with him for almost five years, including helping open his quarantine and relay facility in Naples, Florida.
00:15:19.179 --> 00:15:21.579
Dr. Greg Lewbart: It was immersion, but I learned a lot.
00:15:22.159 --> 00:15:23.479
Dr. Roy Yanong: Oh, definitely, definitely.
00:15:23.539 --> 00:15:30.539
Dr. Roy Yanong: And yeah, for the listeners, this is kind of when I met Greg after he just started the job as I was a vet student.
00:15:30.559 --> 00:15:33.439
Dr. Roy Yanong: So, yeah, it was kind of a classic time for us, I think.
00:15:34.139 --> 00:15:39.479
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Oh, it was, I, you know, Roy and his buddy Howard Crum called me on the phone.
00:15:39.499 --> 00:15:47.959
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So for the listeners, 1988, and you've heard this if you're younger from your parents or grandparents, but that's, you know, the phone rang and it was a landline.
00:15:47.979 --> 00:15:51.459
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And these two guys said, hey, we just started at UPenn.
00:15:51.479 --> 00:15:52.279
Dr. Greg Lewbart: We're first years.
00:15:52.299 --> 00:15:53.459
Dr. Greg Lewbart: We heard you're a fish vet.
00:15:53.759 --> 00:15:54.979
Dr. Greg Lewbart: We want to be fish vets.
00:15:55.059 --> 00:15:56.079
Dr. Greg Lewbart: We want to visit you.
00:15:56.259 --> 00:15:59.999
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And then it struck up what's now a 36 year relationship.
00:16:00.759 --> 00:16:08.199
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I remember we had kind of assigned you guys some pretty basic research projects like, hey, yes, I remember.
00:16:08.219 --> 00:16:08.979
Dr. Roy Yanong: I remember.
00:16:09.679 --> 00:16:11.699
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Drop off a pin and see what it looks like.
00:16:11.739 --> 00:16:14.059
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And, you know, we we build on that.
00:16:14.079 --> 00:16:15.819
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Let's just say, oh, yeah, definitely.
00:16:15.899 --> 00:16:22.679
Dr. Roy Yanong: So you mentioned Naples and that was kind of my next question was, which I thought was really exciting when that happened.
00:16:22.699 --> 00:16:24.039
Dr. Roy Yanong: And you told us about it.
00:16:24.159 --> 00:16:29.679
Dr. Roy Yanong: Tell us about why you moved down to Florida and Naples and a little bit about what you had to do.
00:16:29.699 --> 00:16:32.439
Dr. Roy Yanong: Do to kind of get that part of the business up and running.
00:16:32.619 --> 00:16:37.699
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Yeah, so Dave was a pretty entrepreneurial guy, as was your boss for a while, Joe Diaz.
00:16:37.839 --> 00:16:38.819
Dr. Greg Lewbart: They were good buddies.
00:16:39.519 --> 00:16:42.699
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And, you know, these businesses, let's face it, they are that.
00:16:42.699 --> 00:16:44.039
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So they've got to make money.
00:16:44.179 --> 00:16:45.699
Dr. Greg Lewbart: They've got to stay solvent.
00:16:46.159 --> 00:16:51.119
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And Dave recognized that, you know, mortality really cut into profits, right?
00:16:51.159 --> 00:17:00.599
Dr. Greg Lewbart: If you're paying to import fish and they end up dying, it's a double loss because you're paying to ship water around on airplanes is expensive.
00:17:00.619 --> 00:17:01.099
Dr. Greg Lewbart: It's heavy.
00:17:01.419 --> 00:17:05.059
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So I kind of set up some protocols in Philadelphia that first year.
00:17:05.079 --> 00:17:14.419
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I kind of wish I knew now what I didn't know then because I would have been more proactive on preventive medicine and biosecurity and fish handling.
00:17:14.439 --> 00:17:16.079
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I was I was just new, right?
00:17:16.099 --> 00:17:16.719
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I was naive.
00:17:16.739 --> 00:17:18.499
Dr. Greg Lewbart: But I think I helped some things there.
00:17:18.519 --> 00:17:26.519
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And then Dave thought, well, we're losing a lot of fish out of South America because of the stress of shipment, crowding disease.
00:17:26.539 --> 00:17:40.519
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So he had the idea if I build a holding facility in southern Florida, almost all those South American fish, mainly out of Columbia, Brazil, Peru, if those fish, they almost all fly into Miami.
00:17:40.659 --> 00:17:52.939
Dr. Greg Lewbart: If I can get them at the airport and rush them across the Everglades in two hours, I'll have them swimming in water instead of another 12 to 24 hours being shipped around the country.
00:17:53.319 --> 00:18:08.819
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So, the idea was get the fish, reduce stress, manage disease and problems, and then you'll have a much stronger product to trans ship, either supply by truck in other wholesalers in Florida or ship by air.
00:18:09.199 --> 00:18:10.099
Dr. Greg Lewbart: That was the idea.
00:18:11.539 --> 00:18:16.799
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Early on, I would travel down, maybe for a few days or a week, go back to Philly.
00:18:16.799 --> 00:18:25.639
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And by the end of 1989, I was living there and only coming up to Philly, you know, every couple of few months.
00:18:26.019 --> 00:18:29.859
Dr. Roy Yanong: Now, you left out the weird South American travel parts.
00:18:30.519 --> 00:18:32.499
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Oh, you mean like flying to South America?
00:18:32.819 --> 00:18:33.639
Dr. Roy Yanong: Yes, yes.
00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:36.679
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I went to Columbia once and it was interesting.
00:18:36.699 --> 00:18:41.339
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I had about, we were working on how to, again, these are businesses, right?
00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:44.219
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Of course, everybody wants live healthy fish.
00:18:44.659 --> 00:18:53.719
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And so we wanted to find a way to increase the pack, more fish in a box to make the landed cost cheaper without sacrificing health.
00:18:53.919 --> 00:18:57.219
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So I went down and I brought MS-222.
00:18:57.239 --> 00:19:00.199
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I remember I brought like a kilo of MS-222.
00:19:00.219 --> 00:19:03.019
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So I'm bringing a kilo of white powder to Columbia.
00:19:03.459 --> 00:19:05.699
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And they didn't care about that at all.
00:19:05.879 --> 00:19:08.059
Dr. Greg Lewbart: It's like taking sand to the beach, right?
00:19:08.339 --> 00:19:12.039
Dr. Greg Lewbart: But what they did care about was my microscope.
00:19:12.199 --> 00:19:13.859
Dr. Greg Lewbart: They really scrutinized that.
00:19:14.139 --> 00:19:15.359
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And my Swiss Army knife.
00:19:15.379 --> 00:19:22.619
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Now, younger people will be surprised, but in the 80s and 90s, you could fly with knives with no problems.
00:19:22.639 --> 00:19:25.179
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I had my Swiss Army knife in my pocket all the time.
00:19:25.199 --> 00:19:38.159
Dr. Greg Lewbart: But when I got to Bogota, one of the security guys looked at it and opened it and kind of held it up to his neck and made like a slashing sound like or movement, like you could still do that even with a small knife.
00:19:38.179 --> 00:19:39.159
Dr. Greg Lewbart: But they gave me my knife.
00:19:39.179 --> 00:19:45.559
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And to tell you, I love to truth, I love Colombia and I felt very safe there despite the reputation.
00:19:45.579 --> 00:19:50.079
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So so yeah, I think that's my main South American story.
00:19:50.339 --> 00:19:57.099
Dr. Roy Yanong: And I know I think you had mentioned before you worked to get suppliers obviously out of there and did some visiting of some of the areas.
00:19:57.399 --> 00:19:58.699
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Yeah, yeah, we visited.
00:19:58.719 --> 00:20:05.579
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I worked with shippers and I went down to the the Yano, so the plains where the fish were caught and held.
00:20:05.779 --> 00:20:10.079
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I had some really interesting experiences back in Naples.
00:20:10.579 --> 00:20:16.779
Dr. Greg Lewbart: One guy, I won't mention his name, not that it would matter probably, but he was in the zoo.
00:20:16.839 --> 00:20:25.799
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So what happens, I don't know how it is now because I'm pretty far removed, but most of the South American shippers of fish, these are family businesses.
00:20:25.819 --> 00:20:34.799
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So they'll have a family member in Miami, like a brother or cousin or uncle or aunt or spouse, and they'll handle the United States side of the business.
00:20:34.919 --> 00:20:39.059
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And then they have family in South America that handle the South American side.
00:20:39.239 --> 00:20:40.939
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And that seems to work really well.
00:20:41.219 --> 00:20:47.159
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Well, one guy disappeared from the equation for a couple of years, and then he reappeared.
00:20:47.659 --> 00:20:50.459
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I said, hey, where have you been?
00:20:50.479 --> 00:20:53.499
Dr. Greg Lewbart: He said, oh, I spent a couple of years at the university.
00:20:53.979 --> 00:20:56.679
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And it turned out that was a euphemism for in jail.
00:20:57.019 --> 00:21:05.939
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So some South American tropical fish, there were drug dealers laundering money with tropical fish.
00:21:06.239 --> 00:21:08.859
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So that's how they would clean up the drug money.
00:21:08.939 --> 00:21:14.019
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Not everybody or maybe even many, but some people did that and he got caught.
00:21:14.039 --> 00:21:30.239
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And the other thing that I never saw it happen, but people would also smuggle drugs into the US, either inside fish, literally like little packets inside placostomous, or more commonly in the walls of the fish boxes, the styrofoam boxes.
00:21:30.599 --> 00:21:49.379
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So frequently when we picked up these boxes, our driver in Miami, that the customs people and the DEA would puncture the styrofoam with blunt probes, that they wouldn't puncture the bags, but they would make sure that the styrofoam walls were not hollow or filled with anything.
00:21:49.599 --> 00:21:50.519
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So it was interesting.
00:21:50.759 --> 00:21:51.379
Dr. Roy Yanong: Interesting.
00:21:51.679 --> 00:21:52.879
Dr. Roy Yanong: I don't think I heard that part.
00:21:54.959 --> 00:22:01.559
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And sometimes practical jokes are fun and funny, and sometimes you cross the line.
00:22:01.959 --> 00:22:03.999
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I crossed the line once.
00:22:04.019 --> 00:22:10.999
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So my now wife, we weren't married then, she came down and decided to, she was a veterinarian, she was a class behind me.
00:22:11.019 --> 00:22:14.319
Dr. Greg Lewbart: She was going to move to Naples and her mom drove her down.
00:22:14.599 --> 00:22:16.839
Dr. Greg Lewbart: The job came with a house on the property.
00:22:16.899 --> 00:22:18.019
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So I've been living there.
00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:24.719
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And the people, it was, they were like people building the life support systems and working on the building.
00:22:24.739 --> 00:22:26.959
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So it was mostly guys living there.
00:22:27.259 --> 00:22:29.799
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And so it needed some cleaning up.
00:22:30.239 --> 00:22:43.119
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I remember Diane's mom was there, and our driver had found sometimes the DEA people would test the boxes with these colorimetric test kits looking for contraband like cocaine or heroin.
00:22:43.279 --> 00:22:49.219
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And one time, at least one time, one of these kits came back in between a couple of boxes.
00:22:49.239 --> 00:22:50.419
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So I had it on my desk.
00:22:50.579 --> 00:22:52.079
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Well, I'm from New Jersey.
00:22:52.159 --> 00:22:53.079
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So this ties in.
00:22:53.099 --> 00:22:54.319
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I'm a Northern kid.
00:22:54.339 --> 00:22:56.799
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So Diane's mom is cleaning this kitchen.
00:22:57.079 --> 00:23:02.919
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And underneath the microwave, she finds this piece of waxy paper with white powder in it.
00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:04.199
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I'd never seen it.
00:23:04.359 --> 00:23:05.939
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And she says, what is this?
00:23:06.359 --> 00:23:09.499
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I said, oh, well, I have this cocaine tester here.
00:23:09.519 --> 00:23:10.119
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Let's see.
00:23:10.659 --> 00:23:12.739
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Well, her mom like lost it.
00:23:12.979 --> 00:23:15.479
Dr. Greg Lewbart: She's like, again, I'm bringing you back home.
00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:16.819
Dr. Greg Lewbart: You're not staying here.
00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:19.119
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I said, no, no, I was kidding.
00:23:19.139 --> 00:23:19.839
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I don't know what it is.
00:23:19.859 --> 00:23:25.259
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So the only way she wouldn't take her daughter away is we had to go to the Naples Police Station.
00:23:25.279 --> 00:23:30.219
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So here we go with this wax paper with white powder with no label or anything.
00:23:30.219 --> 00:23:32.539
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I bring it to the Naples Police Station.
00:23:32.559 --> 00:23:34.439
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I say, found this in my house.
00:23:34.719 --> 00:23:38.279
Dr. Greg Lewbart: My mother-in-law-to-be insists that you test it.
00:23:38.299 --> 00:23:41.639
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And they tested it and they said, it's not any contraband.
00:23:41.659 --> 00:23:42.839
Dr. Greg Lewbart: It's not an illegal drug.
00:23:42.859 --> 00:23:54.519
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And it wasn't until about five years later, and I was living in North Carolina, and I learned it was probably headache powder, that there's this stuff called like goodies, headache powder, BC powder.
00:23:54.719 --> 00:23:55.519
Dr. Greg Lewbart: That's what it was.
00:23:55.679 --> 00:23:56.319
Dr. Roy Yanong: That's funny.
00:23:56.499 --> 00:23:57.179
Dr. Roy Yanong: That's hilarious.
00:23:57.419 --> 00:23:58.439
Dr. Greg Lewbart: You can cut that out.
00:23:58.639 --> 00:23:59.239
Dr. Greg Lewbart: If you want.
00:23:59.399 --> 00:24:00.639
Dr. Roy Yanong: Oh, no, no, that's great.
00:24:01.279 --> 00:24:08.219
Dr. Roy Yanong: Well, let's take a short break and we'll continue our discussion with Fish Medicine pioneer and award-winning author, Dr.
00:24:08.239 --> 00:24:10.999
Dr. Roy Yanong: Greg Lewbart, after these messages from our sponsors.
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00:24:38.426 --> 00:24:40.506
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00:24:48.666 --> 00:24:52.192
Dr. Roy Yanong: We're back and continuing our conversation with my guest, Dr.
00:24:52.212 --> 00:24:57.012
Dr. Roy Yanong: Greg Lewbart, Fish Vet Pioneer and award-winning author based at North Carolina State University.
00:24:57.292 --> 00:24:59.912
Dr. Roy Yanong: So, Greg, I want to move forward again.
00:24:59.932 --> 00:25:07.392
Dr. Roy Yanong: And I remember coming down, working at 5D for a year, and then you told me you were moving away.
00:25:07.932 --> 00:25:11.052
Dr. Roy Yanong: So, tell us about the next phase of your career then.
00:25:11.072 --> 00:25:14.892
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Yeah, well, I knew there wasn't room in Florida for both of us, Roy.
00:25:16.432 --> 00:25:19.332
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So, I knew I had to kind of move north.
00:25:19.912 --> 00:25:31.432
Dr. Greg Lewbart: No, you know, it's funny, even when I took the job at O'Byrne's, I thought, well, this is a job working with fish as a vet and they're going to pay me, that's awesome.
00:25:31.452 --> 00:25:34.872
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And one day I'd like to be a public aquarium veterinarian.
00:25:34.892 --> 00:25:42.292
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And, you know, after a few years, and I had a lot of loans, you know, we went to an expensive vet school and I borrowed a lot.
00:25:42.312 --> 00:25:43.892
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So the job was good in that way.
00:25:43.912 --> 00:25:46.352
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I had a, I didn't have to pay rent, so that helped.
00:25:46.712 --> 00:25:49.012
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I had a racehorse, and that's another story.
00:25:49.252 --> 00:25:54.212
Dr. Greg Lewbart: But my mom and I adopted a little standard bred foal that was going to be euthanized.
00:25:54.232 --> 00:25:57.012
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So that was a little bit of a drain on the pocketbook.
00:25:57.032 --> 00:26:00.012
Dr. Greg Lewbart: But anyway, you know, I was content in Florida.
00:26:00.312 --> 00:26:02.592
Dr. Greg Lewbart: But I didn't think I'd spend my whole career there.
00:26:02.912 --> 00:26:05.312
Dr. Greg Lewbart: It was a little bit of an academic vacuum.
00:26:05.812 --> 00:26:06.452
Dr. Greg Lewbart: We loved it.
00:26:06.512 --> 00:26:10.032
Dr. Greg Lewbart: We loved that area of Southwest Florida.
00:26:10.052 --> 00:26:13.472
Dr. Greg Lewbart: But, you know, I was sort of looking at one ads now and again.
00:26:13.512 --> 00:26:17.952
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And then NC State was looking for a fish veterinarian in the AVMA journal.
00:26:18.132 --> 00:26:21.432
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I thought, well, there aren't many of us out there, I'm going to apply.
00:26:21.672 --> 00:26:29.552
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So even though I was only not quite five years out of vet school, four years out of vet school, really, I applied to NC State.
00:26:29.832 --> 00:26:31.232
Dr. Greg Lewbart: It had a great reputation.
00:26:31.252 --> 00:26:32.172
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I'd never been here.
00:26:32.192 --> 00:26:38.712
Dr. Greg Lewbart: But Michael Stooskopf was here, Ed Noga was here, two of the leading fish veterinarians.
00:26:39.812 --> 00:26:49.532
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And at the time, those two guys, Ruth Francis Floyd and Jack Grotzik of the University of Georgia, and Jack Grotzik was also a very important mentor for me.
00:26:49.632 --> 00:26:55.012
Dr. Greg Lewbart: In fact, when I thought about taking the job in Philadelphia, I called him and Dr.
00:26:55.032 --> 00:26:58.672
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Don Abt, and both of them said, but you should go for it.
00:26:58.872 --> 00:27:04.932
Dr. Greg Lewbart: But at the time, I mean, there were a lot of fish health people out there, but most of them weren't veterinarians too.
00:27:04.972 --> 00:27:20.572
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So with Noga and Stooskopf here, and I was lucky to get an interview, and then when I got the job offer in August of 1992, even though I had to take a pay cut, I thought this window is going to close for someone who didn't have a PhD.
00:27:20.932 --> 00:27:23.912
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I had a master's, but no PhD, no board certification.
00:27:23.932 --> 00:27:25.632
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I better jump through that window.
00:27:25.992 --> 00:27:27.612
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And that's how I ended up at NC State.
00:27:27.992 --> 00:27:31.052
Dr. Roy Yanong: And you've done a ton, obviously, before and since then.
00:27:31.272 --> 00:27:40.152
Dr. Roy Yanong: The next question I had for you was just kind of about some of those early years at NC State and maybe some of the holes you saw, gaps in fish medicine.
00:27:40.452 --> 00:27:47.892
Dr. Roy Yanong: What research teaching and or outreach efforts would you say are kind of pivotal for you in your career and are you most proud of?
00:27:48.952 --> 00:27:54.892
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So probably the best thing about this environment for me is the whole teamwork approach.
00:27:55.292 --> 00:27:57.352
Dr. Greg Lewbart: You know, I'm not a good surgeon.
00:27:57.372 --> 00:27:58.832
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I'm sort of a generalist.
00:27:59.092 --> 00:28:01.972
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And sometimes I kind of say I'm like a manager.
00:28:02.372 --> 00:28:09.152
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Like I'll manage a case, but I get a surgeon and I get a radiologist and an ophthalmologist or whatever is needed.
00:28:09.172 --> 00:28:12.452
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So that this academic environment was really good for me.
00:28:12.692 --> 00:28:15.072
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I'm willing to say, hey, don't worry, everybody.
00:28:15.372 --> 00:28:22.612
Dr. Greg Lewbart: This is a fish, but I can help you with the anatomy and the physiology, the pre and post procedure care, those kinds of things.
00:28:22.632 --> 00:28:31.332
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So the students really drove a lot of what we did, in particular, Robert Bacall, who was a first year student when I came here.
00:28:31.712 --> 00:28:33.632
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And Robert was really fearless.
00:28:34.192 --> 00:28:37.932
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I knew him from an I triple A and meeting even before I came here.
00:28:38.332 --> 00:28:41.012
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And he would say, let's do abdominal surgery.
00:28:41.292 --> 00:28:42.812
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Let's do an MRI.
00:28:43.012 --> 00:28:44.472
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Let's do a myelogram.
00:28:44.492 --> 00:28:46.952
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I mean, things I would never have tried.
00:28:46.972 --> 00:28:52.472
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And so I think what I'm most proud of in that area is really some pioneering work.
00:28:52.492 --> 00:28:53.472
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And it's not me.
00:28:53.492 --> 00:29:00.192
Dr. Greg Lewbart: It's really the team here on fish anesthesia, fish imaging and fish surgery.
00:29:00.212 --> 00:29:03.452
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And along with Craig Harms, who was a resident at the time.
00:29:03.492 --> 00:29:08.092
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And Craig is for sure my closest friend and colleague here at NC State.
00:29:08.112 --> 00:29:10.832
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And we've been working together for almost 32 years.
00:29:11.292 --> 00:29:18.632
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And so we just, I think, pulled back the curtain on some of what the limits were, or at least perceived to be.
00:29:18.652 --> 00:29:24.692
Dr. Greg Lewbart: We can take a cichlid and do abdominal surgery and take part of it, swim bladder out, close it up and it'll live.
00:29:24.712 --> 00:29:29.172
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Or do microsurgery on a gourami and do CAT scans on fish.
00:29:29.172 --> 00:29:38.032
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And things that are, I'm not saying we were the first people to do those, I'm sure we weren't, but we were among the first to write up and publish some of that work.
00:29:38.232 --> 00:29:47.512
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So I think I'm proud of looking at someone's pet fish, whether it was a goldfish or a gourami, and treating it just like we would somebody's dog or horse.
00:29:47.772 --> 00:29:56.572
Dr. Roy Yanong: I have to add, and you did a lot of work, you know, kind of looking at drugs and drug studies as well, both, you know, the kinetics and the, you know, just effectiveness.
00:29:56.592 --> 00:29:57.832
Dr. Roy Yanong: Do you want to maybe talk about that?
00:29:57.872 --> 00:30:02.312
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Yeah, so, you know, I had some great mentors once I got here.
00:30:03.092 --> 00:30:06.252
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I don't know, I just mean, you're in academia too.
00:30:06.272 --> 00:30:08.692
Dr. Greg Lewbart: It's just magical in a lot of ways.
00:30:08.772 --> 00:30:15.372
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And some people who are more experienced and were tenured said, Hey, Greg, you can be a fish vet.
00:30:15.392 --> 00:30:15.932
Dr. Greg Lewbart: That's great.
00:30:15.952 --> 00:30:22.972
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I know you love reptiles and you can be a reptile vet, but you're going to need discipline to kind of hang your hat on you.
00:30:23.052 --> 00:30:32.112
Dr. Greg Lewbart: If you're going to get tenure in advance up the academic ladder, you're really going to have to focus on some part of fish medicine.
00:30:32.132 --> 00:30:33.872
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So not just taxonomic work.
00:30:33.892 --> 00:30:38.272
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I thought, well, pharmacokinetics is in pharmacology.
00:30:38.292 --> 00:30:49.952
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I'm not a pharmacologist, but I knew the challenges I had in the industry, treating fish, figuring out drugs and dosages and routes of administration.
00:30:49.972 --> 00:30:53.772
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I thought, yeah, that's something I could work with.
00:30:53.792 --> 00:30:54.592
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And that's what I did.
00:30:54.612 --> 00:30:57.952
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And we established a colony of Paku.
00:30:58.612 --> 00:30:59.852
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I remember telling Dr.
00:30:59.872 --> 00:31:05.052
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Stoskov, I said, you know, I worked with these fish in Florida and in the Amazon.
00:31:05.572 --> 00:31:14.672
Dr. Greg Lewbart: They're big, they're tough, they're resilient, and they're a good model because they're related to tetras and a lot of other popular tropical fish.
00:31:14.692 --> 00:31:22.672
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So we had a colony of Paku here for about 15 years that we did anesthesia studies with, pharmacokinetics studies.
00:31:23.252 --> 00:31:29.712
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And so, yeah, that was, if I had an area that was a discipline, it was pharmacology.
00:31:30.192 --> 00:31:33.612
Dr. Roy Yanong: So you also did quite a bit on the teaching side.
00:31:34.032 --> 00:31:36.412
Dr. Roy Yanong: And I remember you bringing students down here.
00:31:36.432 --> 00:31:38.872
Dr. Roy Yanong: I don't know if that was early on or whether that was a little bit later.
00:31:38.892 --> 00:31:41.712
Dr. Roy Yanong: But yeah, you want to maybe touch on a little bit of the teaching side of that?
00:31:41.732 --> 00:31:42.772
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Yeah, thanks.
00:31:42.992 --> 00:31:50.292
Dr. Greg Lewbart: You know, one thing that was great about coming to NC State as a fish veterinarian is there really wasn't a roadmap for what I could do.
00:31:50.572 --> 00:32:04.792
Dr. Greg Lewbart: It was expected I would do research, teach and see clinics, but it really wasn't well defined, which fit well for me because I tend to function pretty well in a minimally organized environment, let's say.
00:32:05.132 --> 00:32:12.032
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So I started looking at, well, what could I do and what might meet the needs of the school and what would students like?
00:32:12.312 --> 00:32:19.392
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So I think in 1994, I'd been here about a year, I started an aquatic medicine rotation, a two-week rotation.
00:32:20.532 --> 00:32:25.512
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And let's face it, even now, we wouldn't have fish coming in every day.
00:32:25.792 --> 00:32:31.192
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So what I did is I thought, well, I'll kind of run this like an experiential learning.
00:32:31.212 --> 00:32:39.432
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So if I do have fish cases coming in and they're not urgent or emergent, I'll try to hone them in on these two-week blocks.
00:32:39.452 --> 00:32:42.852
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I did one in the spring, one in the fall and one in the winter.
00:32:43.172 --> 00:32:47.132
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And then we'll visit public aquariums, of which there are three in the state.
00:32:47.152 --> 00:32:52.172
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And at this time in the 90s and early 2000s, there were no veterinarians working at those aquariums.
00:32:52.192 --> 00:32:53.752
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Now there are two full-time vets.
00:32:54.172 --> 00:33:00.772
Dr. Greg Lewbart: North Carolina is the number two trout producer, number two or three in the country, way behind Idaho.
00:33:00.792 --> 00:33:04.852
Dr. Greg Lewbart: But there's a fairly substantial rainbow trout industry in the mountains.
00:33:04.872 --> 00:33:07.552
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So we would go to the mountains and visit facilities.
00:33:07.572 --> 00:33:13.032
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And we would go to the coastal plain and visit hybrid striped bass facilities.
00:33:13.292 --> 00:33:16.792
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And we'd go to pet stores and do rounds at the pet store.
00:33:17.152 --> 00:33:19.952
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And we'd go to koi farms in the state.
00:33:20.192 --> 00:33:23.252
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So it was a little bit of Greg driving a big van around the state.
00:33:23.352 --> 00:33:27.512
Dr. Greg Lewbart: But in the winter, there wasn't as much going on, especially with koi ponds.
00:33:27.532 --> 00:33:29.012
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Every fish are pretty dormant.
00:33:29.032 --> 00:33:32.472
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So I thought I'm going to go to Florida and visit my friends there like Roy.
00:33:32.912 --> 00:33:39.232
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So for probably eight or nine years, every February, we'd go to Florida for a week.
00:33:39.532 --> 00:33:42.652
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I'd visit Roy at 5D when he was working there.
00:33:43.112 --> 00:33:46.332
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And later at the Tropical Aquaculture Facility.
00:33:46.532 --> 00:33:49.372
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And we'd go to Disney and go to Epcot.
00:33:49.752 --> 00:33:53.332
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And then we'd go to SeaWorld where we had friends and colleagues.
00:33:53.992 --> 00:33:57.152
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And one time, I had an adventurous group.
00:33:57.172 --> 00:33:58.992
Dr. Greg Lewbart: We went all the way down to the Everglades.
00:33:59.292 --> 00:34:00.892
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I rented a pontoon boat.
00:34:00.912 --> 00:34:02.892
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And we went out for the day on the pontoon boat.
00:34:02.912 --> 00:34:04.772
Dr. Greg Lewbart: But that made for a really long drive back.
00:34:05.152 --> 00:34:07.452
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So that was a very popular block.
00:34:07.452 --> 00:34:11.052
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I opened it up to students from other schools, particularly Penn.
00:34:11.292 --> 00:34:17.712
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Because Penn already had the Aquavit connection and their fish disease course.
00:34:18.392 --> 00:34:23.192
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I maintained some adjunct status there, where I would teach in that course.
00:34:23.212 --> 00:34:30.572
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So if my block didn't fill with NC State students, I would flesh it out with Penn students, and sometimes students from other schools too.
00:34:30.972 --> 00:34:35.132
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I probably did that block for about 15 years.
00:34:35.432 --> 00:34:36.272
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I don't do it anymore.
00:34:36.292 --> 00:34:38.752
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I've got more regular clinical duties.
00:34:39.352 --> 00:34:42.632
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So it precludes me from doing those big two-week hunks.
00:34:43.192 --> 00:34:50.712
Dr. Roy Yanong: So that's a little bit of a segue before we talk about writing and the book you and I put together to your Galapagos interest now.
00:34:50.732 --> 00:34:58.912
Dr. Roy Yanong: I know really, really excited students that get to go there with you during kind of scheduled visits, but you want to talk a little bit about that?
00:34:59.092 --> 00:34:59.752
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Yeah, I do.
00:34:59.912 --> 00:35:02.492
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So, I mean, it's such a great profession we're in.
00:35:02.932 --> 00:35:09.892
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And, you know, opportunities pop up all the time, and sometimes it's like a no-brainer.
00:35:09.912 --> 00:35:12.252
Dr. Greg Lewbart: You just like knee-jerk, yes, I will do that.
00:35:12.372 --> 00:35:17.872
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Sometimes maybe you need to think about it and look at your schedule and look at your priorities.
00:35:17.872 --> 00:35:20.852
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And sometimes right out of the gate, it's like a hard no.
00:35:20.872 --> 00:35:23.692
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Like, no, I'm not really, I don't have expertise in that area.
00:35:23.812 --> 00:35:29.432
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So I started working with a wonderful guy named Ken Lohman in 1995.
00:35:29.432 --> 00:35:32.412
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Ken's a biologist at UNC Chapel Hill.
00:35:32.632 --> 00:35:33.632
Dr. Greg Lewbart: We're the same vintage.
00:35:33.772 --> 00:35:36.052
Dr. Greg Lewbart: In fact, we both took Invertzo with Dr.
00:35:36.072 --> 00:35:36.472
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Barnes.
00:35:36.492 --> 00:35:40.452
Dr. Greg Lewbart: He took it at Duke when he was an undergrad at Duke, and I took it at Gettysburg.
00:35:40.832 --> 00:35:43.632
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And he studies marine animal navigation.
00:35:44.312 --> 00:35:49.812
Dr. Greg Lewbart: His master's was at University of Florida looking at lobster navigation.
00:35:49.812 --> 00:35:53.552
Dr. Greg Lewbart: His PhD was on salmon at University of Washington.
00:35:54.072 --> 00:35:57.832
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And then he came to UNC Chapel Hill around 1991.
00:35:58.212 --> 00:36:03.652
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And his research, he was looking at marine invertebrates like a sea slug called Tritonia.
00:36:03.752 --> 00:36:06.172
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And he also started working with sea turtles.
00:36:06.192 --> 00:36:10.612
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And when he had some sick Tritonia, he called me, again, telephone.
00:36:10.632 --> 00:36:14.732
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I heard you might be someone who can help me with these sick mollusks.
00:36:14.732 --> 00:36:15.812
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I met him.
00:36:15.852 --> 00:36:17.912
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And it's all about relationships, right, Roy?
00:36:18.012 --> 00:36:23.652
Dr. Greg Lewbart: You know, going over there, at least trying, showing interest and some passion.
00:36:23.672 --> 00:36:26.052
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I brought Andy Stamper with me, actually.
00:36:26.052 --> 00:36:27.312
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Andy was a resident then.
00:36:27.332 --> 00:36:30.772
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And so that tracks it to around 1995, 1996.
00:36:31.092 --> 00:36:33.832
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I'm not sure we helped him, but we had a relationship.
00:36:33.852 --> 00:36:45.092
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And then 2003, 21 years ago, he started bringing juvenile sea turtles into his lab to study navigation in a non-invasive way using magnetic fields and little harnesses.
00:36:45.332 --> 00:36:50.752
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I'd always had an interest in reptiles and amphibians, and NC State allowed me to pursue that.
00:36:50.932 --> 00:36:54.432
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And so when he needed a vet for his sea turtles, I became that person.
00:36:54.452 --> 00:37:01.692
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So once or twice a year, I would go to Chapel Hill, bring students, do physicals, and he would keep these turtles for a year.
00:37:01.892 --> 00:37:05.852
Dr. Greg Lewbart: It was sort of a combo head starting program and research program.
00:37:06.332 --> 00:37:08.872
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And this went on for eight or nine years.
00:37:08.892 --> 00:37:11.392
Dr. Greg Lewbart: We'd have lunch, how's the family?
00:37:11.412 --> 00:37:16.272
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And around 2011, he said, hey, I've been going to the Galapagos.
00:37:16.412 --> 00:37:18.272
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And my ears kind of perked up.
00:37:18.292 --> 00:37:19.432
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I said, oh, what's happening there?
00:37:19.452 --> 00:37:23.372
Dr. Greg Lewbart: He said, well, we're building a science center with a school in Quito.
00:37:23.392 --> 00:37:25.552
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I said, well, if you ever need a vet, he said, okay.
00:37:25.572 --> 00:37:32.252
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And then 2012, he said, hey, Greg, this stuff you're doing with my sea turtles, physicals, vital signs, collecting blood.
00:37:32.272 --> 00:37:34.752
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Could you do that with wild sea turtles in the Galapagos?
00:37:34.772 --> 00:37:36.712
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I'm trying to get some research off the ground.
00:37:36.732 --> 00:37:38.892
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And that was like a knee jerk, no brainer.
00:37:38.912 --> 00:37:40.852
Dr. Greg Lewbart: He didn't even have to finish the question.
00:37:40.872 --> 00:37:43.772
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And before I even thought how I would do it, I said yes.
00:37:43.812 --> 00:37:46.992
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So I made my first trip there in 2013.
00:37:47.352 --> 00:37:49.012
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And Roy, you were there this year.
00:37:49.032 --> 00:37:55.392
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I mean, I don't think anybody that goes to the Galapagos is disappointed.
00:37:55.472 --> 00:37:57.652
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And doesn't want to find a way to go back.
00:37:57.852 --> 00:38:01.032
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And so I've been there 28 times now.
00:38:01.812 --> 00:38:05.792
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And very modest beginning, going with Ken, just the two of us.
00:38:06.292 --> 00:38:13.392
Dr. Greg Lewbart: We did our sea turtle research, but I started establishing relationships with the Galapagos National Park and other scientists.
00:38:13.412 --> 00:38:16.832
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And now I think I've worked on 25 species there.
00:38:17.212 --> 00:38:28.632
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Our NC State team and colleagues have published about 40 papers and truth funniest thing, the only thing I've done with fish in the Galapagos is eat them.
00:38:29.112 --> 00:38:39.252
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I'm involved in some fish projects, but I've not been hands on because of either the pandemic or I've been needed to work on sea lions or seabirds or tortoises.
00:38:39.272 --> 00:38:45.772
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So and I tell my students, I didn't even go to the Galapagos for the first time till I was 54 years old.
00:38:46.252 --> 00:38:49.012
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So that's what's great about this career.
00:38:49.252 --> 00:38:58.592
Dr. Greg Lewbart: You don't know where it's going to take you, but if you work hard at relationships in a sincere and transparent manner, it's going to take you to cool places.
00:38:58.612 --> 00:39:00.172
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I think you found that this year.
00:39:00.572 --> 00:39:06.712
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And one other thing, I think it came at a great time for me because I've been at NC State for 20 years.
00:39:07.052 --> 00:39:14.492
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I won't say I was getting bored, but I think I was sort of looking for something a little different and the Galapagos kind of dropped in my lap.
00:39:14.512 --> 00:39:18.772
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And then, as you mentioned, I've taken about 140 students there.
00:39:19.192 --> 00:39:25.192
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Every spring break, I bring between 20 and 30 to third year vet students.
00:39:25.472 --> 00:39:28.392
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And not only do we go, it's very intense.
00:39:28.412 --> 00:39:32.852
Dr. Greg Lewbart: We're only there on the ground about seven days, but we do field research too.
00:39:32.872 --> 00:39:35.432
Dr. Roy Yanong: Yeah, I've definitely heard about it from some of your students.
00:39:35.552 --> 00:39:38.912
Dr. Roy Yanong: And yeah, the Galapagos is special.
00:39:39.172 --> 00:39:42.372
Dr. Roy Yanong: I thought, you know, Greg hasn't done fish, so maybe I need to do some fish there.
00:39:42.392 --> 00:39:45.152
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And it's great you're doing it.
00:39:45.392 --> 00:39:46.572
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Are you going back this year?
00:39:46.912 --> 00:39:50.372
Dr. Roy Yanong: Yeah, going back in actually July, August, and then again in January.
00:39:50.392 --> 00:39:53.692
Dr. Roy Yanong: So unfortunately, we're not going to overlap, unfortunately.
00:39:53.852 --> 00:39:54.912
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Oh, maybe in July.
00:39:55.112 --> 00:39:56.252
Dr. Roy Yanong: Well, it'll be end of July.
00:39:56.332 --> 00:39:58.292
Dr. Roy Yanong: You said you're going to be mid-July, I think, right?
00:39:58.492 --> 00:40:00.792
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Yeah, 15th to about the 23rd.
00:40:01.852 --> 00:40:04.292
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Well, like I said, I mean, there's not room in Florida.
00:40:04.312 --> 00:40:06.232
Dr. Greg Lewbart: There's not room in the Galapagos for us either.
00:40:06.252 --> 00:40:10.672
Dr. Roy Yanong: Yeah, I'm getting that kind of sense, which makes me sad.
00:40:10.952 --> 00:40:11.912
Dr. Greg Lewbart: What about the book?
00:40:12.152 --> 00:40:12.932
Dr. Roy Yanong: Yeah, the book.
00:40:12.952 --> 00:40:13.932
Dr. Roy Yanong: Let's talk about the book.
00:40:13.952 --> 00:40:38.352
Dr. Roy Yanong: So before we talk about the Aquarium Fish Medicine handbook that Greg and I co-author that just came out, I did want to at least reference the fact that Greg is an award winning author, as well as a veterinarian and pioneer, and has done a lot to forward the profession, including his pretty influential and important invertebrate medicine book, which I think is on its third edition right now, right?
00:40:38.372 --> 00:40:43.252
Dr. Roy Yanong: So I was honored when Greg asked me to co-write this book.
00:40:43.272 --> 00:40:45.772
Dr. Roy Yanong: So yeah, talk about the Aquarium Fish Medicine handbook, Greg.
00:40:45.932 --> 00:40:46.852
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Yeah, I'd love to.
00:40:47.032 --> 00:40:59.832
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So we talk about pioneers, I mentioned some names and Greg and Linda Harrison are really pioneers in the area of what we call exotic animal medicine or non-domestic or companion zoo animal.
00:41:00.172 --> 00:41:04.872
Dr. Greg Lewbart: They wrote avian medicine textbooks going, I think the first edition was in the mid 80s.
00:41:05.512 --> 00:41:10.372
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And then they started a company called the Zoological Education Network.
00:41:10.612 --> 00:41:12.572
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And this would have been in the in the 90s.
00:41:13.132 --> 00:41:14.472
Dr. Greg Lewbart: It was a big deal.
00:41:14.492 --> 00:41:22.452
Dr. Greg Lewbart: They had their own conference every year in southern Florida, and they put out a journal called Exotic DVM Magazine.
00:41:22.672 --> 00:41:26.872
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Exotic DVM Magazine was a very clinically focused journal.
00:41:27.112 --> 00:41:30.012
Dr. Greg Lewbart: There was some peer review, but it was really practical.
00:41:30.332 --> 00:41:31.972
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Hey, I'm a busy clinician.
00:41:32.012 --> 00:41:40.272
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And you know, this is before the Internet was big, and so it really helped to have these one-pager articles sometimes with nuts and bolts.
00:41:40.752 --> 00:41:41.672
Dr. Greg Lewbart: How do I hold it?
00:41:41.692 --> 00:41:42.992
Dr. Greg Lewbart: How do I get blood out of it?
00:41:43.012 --> 00:41:44.652
Dr. Greg Lewbart: What are the drugs and dosages?
00:41:45.292 --> 00:41:56.692
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And they actually had this handbook series, which was like a multi-ring binder, and you could buy these little inserts, 50, 60-page inserts, and put them in this handbook.
00:41:56.692 --> 00:41:58.152
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I have a couple on my shelf.
00:41:58.972 --> 00:42:06.472
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So, it's probably 20 years ago, Linda reached out and said, hey, how would you like to put together a little handbook of ornamental fish for our series?
00:42:06.832 --> 00:42:17.452
Dr. Greg Lewbart: It doesn't have to be big and involved, just something that a veterinarian could have quickly turned to, like between clients, how much MS-222 or how do I get a skin biopsy?
00:42:17.452 --> 00:42:18.472
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And so I did it.
00:42:18.492 --> 00:42:19.912
Dr. Greg Lewbart: It was very modest.
00:42:20.472 --> 00:42:21.932
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I think it was 54 pages.
00:42:21.952 --> 00:42:22.732
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I looked at it the other day.
00:42:23.512 --> 00:42:34.372
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And, you know, the years went by and the Zoological Education Network, I mean, there have been some other kind of groups and things that have replaced it as our part of the profession has developed.
00:42:34.652 --> 00:42:40.852
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Exotic animals, amphibians and reptiles and small mammals and even fish all have their own boards now.
00:42:40.872 --> 00:42:43.812
Dr. Greg Lewbart: You can be an American Board of Veterinary Practitioners Specialist.
00:42:43.832 --> 00:42:45.212
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So things have changed and evolved.
00:42:45.572 --> 00:42:49.572
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And then, I don't know, it's probably, I don't remember, Roy, it was three years ago?
00:42:49.592 --> 00:42:50.632
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Does that sound about right?
00:42:52.072 --> 00:42:53.352
Dr. Roy Yanong: Sure, let's go with three years ago.
00:42:53.372 --> 00:42:54.212
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Let's go with three.
00:42:54.232 --> 00:42:55.352
Dr. Greg Lewbart: It could have been a tick more.
00:42:56.112 --> 00:43:00.972
Dr. Greg Lewbart: But CRC Press reached out to me and I guess they knew about the handbook.
00:43:01.072 --> 00:43:04.172
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And they said, hey, how would you like to revise that handbook?
00:43:04.592 --> 00:43:08.152
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I've edited a number of textbooks and it's a lot of work.
00:43:08.612 --> 00:43:16.572
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I thought to really bring this handbook up to current standards with the information we have now is going to be a pretty big task.
00:43:16.592 --> 00:43:18.472
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I reached out to the Harrisons.
00:43:18.492 --> 00:43:19.692
Dr. Greg Lewbart: They are so generous.
00:43:19.792 --> 00:43:24.072
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And they said, Greg, you just take that thing and do whatever you want with it.
00:43:24.092 --> 00:43:27.952
Dr. Greg Lewbart: You know, you don't have to pay for the rights because I didn't, you know, usually publishers own the rights.
00:43:27.972 --> 00:43:29.292
Dr. Greg Lewbart: They said, you can just use it up.
00:43:29.312 --> 00:43:30.612
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And it was very nice of them.
00:43:30.832 --> 00:43:35.912
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And then I thought, OK, I don't think I can do this justice by myself.
00:43:36.172 --> 00:43:38.732
Dr. Greg Lewbart: It really needs it needs a clean up hitter.
00:43:38.932 --> 00:43:42.992
Dr. Greg Lewbart: You need that the home run hitter of ornamental fish and none other than Roy.
00:43:43.012 --> 00:43:47.492
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I reached out to Roy and I said, Roy, how would you like to co author this handbook with me?
00:43:47.512 --> 00:43:53.112
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I think I probably sent you the handbook and we looked it over and Roy really made it what it is.
00:43:53.432 --> 00:44:02.292
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I'm his co author, but I really should be like subscript co author because the amount of work he put into it, but I'm really proud of it.
00:44:02.452 --> 00:44:04.072
Dr. Roy Yanong: Yeah, no, I'm not true at all.
00:44:04.092 --> 00:44:06.192
Dr. Roy Yanong: Greg, obviously you did a ton of work.
00:44:06.372 --> 00:44:08.952
Dr. Roy Yanong: And yeah, no, I'm proud of it as well.
00:44:09.512 --> 00:44:18.692
Dr. Roy Yanong: I guess maybe talk about when you did kind of the outline many, many years ago in the Harrison and Harrison format and kind of the changes.
00:44:18.712 --> 00:44:24.192
Dr. Roy Yanong: Maybe you want to talk a little bit about some of the differences in some of the maybe additions.
00:44:25.112 --> 00:44:25.592
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Yeah.
00:44:25.752 --> 00:44:30.832
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So originally it was pretty minimal, black and white, no color.
00:44:31.172 --> 00:44:33.532
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I think there were just a couple diagrams.
00:44:33.552 --> 00:44:38.172
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I know one was a tube feeding a fish that I had a biological illustrator do.
00:44:38.372 --> 00:44:41.332
Dr. Greg Lewbart: You know, it had references, the sort of references of the time.
00:44:41.472 --> 00:44:44.952
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I think, well, I know it came out in 2006, right?
00:44:44.992 --> 00:44:46.492
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So that's 18 years ago.
00:44:46.512 --> 00:44:50.812
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And really it means I probably was based on information that's 20 years old.
00:44:51.192 --> 00:44:54.592
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So it was fairly basic in terms of it.
00:44:54.612 --> 00:45:01.312
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Think about an outline, like a notes outline you might get in vet school or at a CE conference.
00:45:01.752 --> 00:45:04.552
Dr. Greg Lewbart: You know, bullet points, a few paragraphs.
00:45:04.972 --> 00:45:12.252
Dr. Greg Lewbart: But now it's really what Roy did exceeded any expectations I ever had for the handbook.
00:45:12.592 --> 00:45:14.612
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Now it's almost 300 pages.
00:45:15.152 --> 00:45:18.432
Dr. Greg Lewbart: It's got a formulary, a detailed formulary.
00:45:18.452 --> 00:45:22.152
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Before I think my formulary was one table on one little page.
00:45:22.432 --> 00:45:25.212
Dr. Greg Lewbart: It's richly illustrated with color.
00:45:25.732 --> 00:45:30.872
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Most of those images are from Roy and his contacts in the Florida tropical fish industry.
00:45:31.412 --> 00:45:53.352
Dr. Greg Lewbart: We've got pretty detailed sections on diagnostics, including imaging, like radiology, CT, ultrasound, and really, really detailed sections on surgery, infectious diseases, complete with images of all the major parasites.
00:45:53.672 --> 00:45:57.432
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So I sort of thought it would end up being like a little handbook.
00:45:57.432 --> 00:46:00.332
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Like, I have little hands that you could put in my little hand.
00:46:01.012 --> 00:46:11.452
Dr. Greg Lewbart: But it's really, I mean, I think not that I'm boasting, but man, this thing really came together as like a full blown comprehensive fish textbook.
00:46:11.592 --> 00:46:13.092
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And there's some great books out there.
00:46:13.112 --> 00:46:19.132
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I mean, Michael Stoeskopf's book, Ed Noga's book, Steve Smith, Helen Roberts, Hatfield and Clayton.
00:46:19.312 --> 00:46:20.772
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And they all have their strengths.
00:46:21.012 --> 00:46:23.712
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And, you know, most fish vets have them all on their shelf.
00:46:23.932 --> 00:46:24.612
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Nick St.
00:46:24.612 --> 00:46:33.412
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Earn, but the way this thing came together, and I think the best part of it is, and I'm not sure how CRC did it, but you can buy it for about 40 bucks, the soft cover.
00:46:33.612 --> 00:46:36.272
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So it's richly illustrated in color.
00:46:36.952 --> 00:46:41.752
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I have to have a shout out to my wife, Diane, who really helped design the cover.
00:46:41.912 --> 00:46:43.092
Dr. Roy Yanong: Definitely, definitely.
00:46:43.112 --> 00:46:43.992
Dr. Roy Yanong: Thank you, Diane.
00:46:44.172 --> 00:46:49.392
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Yeah, she helped with the images and the color pattern and everything.
00:46:49.412 --> 00:46:50.272
Dr. Greg Lewbart: She's really good at that.
00:46:50.372 --> 00:46:56.772
Dr. Greg Lewbart: In fact, she helped design the covers of at least two of the invertebrate medicine books.
00:46:56.772 --> 00:46:58.152
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So that really helped.
00:46:58.192 --> 00:47:04.232
Dr. Greg Lewbart: But yeah, I mean, I'm bragging on it, partly because it's mostly Roy's book, but it's really good.
00:47:04.232 --> 00:47:06.632
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I'm even buying extra copies to give away.
00:47:06.752 --> 00:47:08.132
Dr. Roy Yanong: Definitely, mine and Greg's book.
00:47:08.152 --> 00:47:10.332
Dr. Roy Yanong: And yeah, I told Greg already as well.
00:47:10.352 --> 00:47:15.612
Dr. Roy Yanong: I think we've got plans for the second edition, but I think the first edition will hopefully have a pretty good run.
00:47:15.632 --> 00:47:32.852
Dr. Roy Yanong: And I think there's, you know, I think one of the goals we had was definitely keeping it as much detail as we could, but short enough that you didn't have to kind of wade through too much to get basic information that you would need, whether you're maybe an advanced hobbyist or aquarist or a veterinarian who's going to be working with these folks.
00:47:33.112 --> 00:47:36.112
Dr. Roy Yanong: So yeah, I think that's kind of one of the strengths of the book.
00:47:36.172 --> 00:47:41.932
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Yeah, and I think one thing that keeps it detailed but concise is that we really focus on ornamental fish.
00:47:42.212 --> 00:47:42.472
Dr. Roy Yanong: Yep.
00:47:42.612 --> 00:47:56.672
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So it's focused freshwater and marine, but you know, at the public aquarium level, the hobbyist level, the aquaculture level, but we really don't kind of spread out into salmonids or tilapia or catfish or anything like that.
00:47:56.692 --> 00:48:00.952
Dr. Greg Lewbart: We stay focused on ornamentals, tropicals, display fish.
00:48:00.972 --> 00:48:02.972
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I think that's one of the strengths of the book.
00:48:03.152 --> 00:48:03.832
Dr. Roy Yanong: Yeah, I agree.
00:48:03.852 --> 00:48:04.492
Dr. Roy Yanong: I agree.
00:48:04.752 --> 00:48:07.012
Dr. Roy Yanong: Well, unfortunately, we're out of time.
00:48:07.672 --> 00:48:10.592
Dr. Roy Yanong: Definitely want to thank our guest, Dr.
00:48:10.612 --> 00:48:16.332
Dr. Roy Yanong: Greg Lewbart, my very, very good close friend and mentor for making the time.
00:48:16.452 --> 00:48:17.712
Dr. Roy Yanong: Greg, appreciate it.
00:48:18.032 --> 00:48:20.372
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Wow, this is really special, Roy.
00:48:20.472 --> 00:48:24.552
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And hey, man, anytime I can spend an hour with you is a happy day.
00:48:24.872 --> 00:48:25.832
Dr. Roy Yanong: Ditto, ditto.
00:48:25.852 --> 00:48:28.812
Dr. Roy Yanong: I want to thank our producer, Mark Winner, for making the show possible.
00:48:29.072 --> 00:48:40.712
Dr. Roy Yanong: Greg, I did mention that I might ask you for some words of wisdom for people, maybe those interested in working with aquarium fish or aquatic animals as a career, you know, husbandry or, or, you know, even health.
00:48:40.812 --> 00:48:43.332
Dr. Roy Yanong: Do you have any any words of wisdom for those folks?
00:48:43.612 --> 00:48:44.612
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Absolutely, I do.
00:48:44.932 --> 00:48:53.252
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So don't be intimidated by the breadth of species or the different kinds of life support systems and environments.
00:48:53.852 --> 00:49:03.732
Dr. Greg Lewbart: If you have an interest and you're willing to work hard, you're enthusiastic and you communicate well with people, then there'll be lots of opportunities for you.
00:49:03.792 --> 00:49:08.332
Dr. Greg Lewbart: We're fish veterinarians as a group are very inclusive.
00:49:08.572 --> 00:49:09.272
Dr. Greg Lewbart: We're fun.
00:49:09.492 --> 00:49:15.952
Dr. Greg Lewbart: There's so much work to be done that people there aren't really like turfs and things like that.
00:49:16.052 --> 00:49:18.272
Dr. Greg Lewbart: We really love mentoring younger people.
00:49:18.752 --> 00:49:21.372
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I would say, get your hands wet.
00:49:21.552 --> 00:49:22.812
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I've never had a theology.
00:49:22.832 --> 00:49:36.832
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I'm not a hobbyist, but I made it a point to try to learn through hands on, through connecting with people, experts, taking CE opportunities, and just teaching myself things.
00:49:36.852 --> 00:49:43.312
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So I would say, you know, we've had almost any major aquarium now has at least two veterinarians.
00:49:43.732 --> 00:49:51.092
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I had a student, a former student last week, who's an ER doctor, and she's pretty amazing.
00:49:51.112 --> 00:49:55.952
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And she reached out to me because she was working with an elasmobranch, and she had never done that.
00:49:56.072 --> 00:49:57.512
Dr. Greg Lewbart: But she said, I'm willing to try.
00:49:57.532 --> 00:49:58.252
Dr. Greg Lewbart: Can you help me?
00:49:58.272 --> 00:49:58.772
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And I did.
00:49:58.872 --> 00:50:03.892
Dr. Greg Lewbart: I facetimed with her and helped her get a sample and helped her get blood.
00:50:04.092 --> 00:50:06.512
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And that kind of stuff is good for everybody.
00:50:06.532 --> 00:50:12.612
Dr. Greg Lewbart: And she probably has a whole new level of confidence working with fish after just one case.
00:50:12.852 --> 00:50:20.232
Dr. Greg Lewbart: So I think if you have the interest and the will, people like Roy and myself and our other colleagues are willing to nurture that interest.
00:50:20.532 --> 00:50:21.772
Dr. Roy Yanong: Very true, very true.
00:50:21.792 --> 00:50:22.412
Dr. Roy Yanong: Thanks, Greg.
00:50:22.592 --> 00:50:28.032
Dr. Roy Yanong: Please be sure to check out Greg's web links, which will be found on his Aquariumania episode page.
00:50:28.352 --> 00:50:34.792
Dr. Roy Yanong: If you have any questions, comments or ideas for a show, email me at drroy at petliferadio.com.
00:50:35.032 --> 00:50:38.552
Dr. Roy Yanong: That's drroy at petliferadio.com.
00:50:38.812 --> 00:50:44.512
Dr. Roy Yanong: Until next time, please visit your local aquarium stores and keep your tanks clean and your fish healthy.
00:50:44.852 --> 00:50:52.012
Dr. Roy Yanong: And definitely check out Greg and my newly released guide, The Aquarium Fish Medicine Handbook, which is available at most online bookstores.
00:50:52.672 --> 00:50:55.692
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