Going Native with Brian Torreano of BTDarters
Most common freshwater tropical fish are farmed, but originated from Asia, South America, Africa and Australia. But what about the native fishes here in the U.S.? Join us as Brian Torreano, ichthyologist and owner of BTDarters explains why US native fishes truly are another great option for aquarium hobbyists.
Listen to Episode #96 Now:
BIO:
Brian has always been passionate about both art and the sciences. As a child, he spent countless hours catching frogs, fish and snakes down by his grandparent’s creek, fueling his interest in the natural world. This early fascination eventually led Brian to pursue a Bachelor’s and Master’s Degree in biological sciences, with a specialty in ichthyology.
As a younger person, Brian’s artistic inclinations manifested in numerous drawings centered around animals, nature and design. In high school, he even received a gift scholarship to the University of Wisconsin – Green Bay’s architecture camp. In 2001, he founded BTDarters, a hobby-company dedicated to providing U.S. native fishes to zoos, aquariums, and aquarium enthusiasts interested in native fish species. Now, more than 20 years later, he is still running the company!
Transcript:
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Announcer: This is Pet Life Radio.
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Announcer: Let's talk pets!
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Welcome to Aquariumania.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: I'm your host, Dr.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Roy Anong, speaking to you from the University of Florida IFAS Tropical Aquaculture Laboratory.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Thanks for joining us.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Most common freshwater tropical fish are farmed, but originated from Asia, South America, Africa, and Australia.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: But what about the native fishes here in the US?
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Join us as Brian Torreano, Ichthyologist and owner of BTDarters, explains why US native fishes truly are another great option for aquarium hobbyists.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: We'll be right back after these messages.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Welcome back to Aquariumania on Pet Life Radio.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Thanks for joining us.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: My guest today is Brian Torreano, US.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Native Fish Expert and owner of BTDarters.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Hey, Brian, thanks for joining us.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: So, as kind of usual with a lot of my guests, I like to get a little bit into your early years at getting a little bit personal.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Where and how did you first become interested in aquatic life?
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Brian Torreano: Well, when I was growing up, my grandparents had a small creek running through their yard, and they lived pretty close to me and my folks.
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Brian Torreano: And so I was able to go to their house a lot, and there were always snakes and frogs and lots of little fish in the creek.
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Brian Torreano: And anytime we would go there, I would be playing down in the creek.
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Brian Torreano: And that's where I got a lot of interest in fish and other native wildlife.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: So tell us, I guess, a little bit more about early years in aquarium keeping.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Do you remember what your very first aquarium tanks were and what you kept?
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Brian Torreano: Yeah, my mom and I had a 30 gallon aquarium when I was really young.
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Brian Torreano: We just had your standard goldfish in there, I believe it was.
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Brian Torreano: And my mom tells me a story that one time when I thought the fish were hungry, I tried to feed them a McDonald's hamburger bun by floating it on the surface of the water.
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Brian Torreano: So yeah, I got started with aquariums at a very young age.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Did they like the hamburger?
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Brian Torreano: I don't remember.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: I forgot, this was in Wisconsin, right?
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Brian Torreano: Yes, correct.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Okay, that's funny.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: And then you learned quickly that hamburgers were not the right diet.
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Brian Torreano: Yes, exactly.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: That's pretty funny.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: So I know you have an interest and passion for kind of both biology and art.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Before we talk about biology and fish, can you tell us a little bit about your art history?
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Brian Torreano: Yeah, I used to do a whole lot of drawing.
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Brian Torreano: I've done some carving, some painting, a lot more when I was younger.
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Brian Torreano: I liked to draw and paint things in the natural world, tigers and fish and random animals and stuff like that.
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Brian Torreano: I did also have an interest in architecture.
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Brian Torreano: So I did some designing with regard to that and did even have a stint at the UW Green Bay Architecture Camp one summer while I was in high school.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: So what made you kind of make the decision to head down the science route and go more biology versus arts?
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Dr. Roy Yanong: What were kind of your sort of driving factors?
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Brian Torreano: After high school, I sat down with my parents and we talked about what would be a better course of action because at that point, it was really a toss up between architecture or biology.
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Brian Torreano: But we came to the realization that since I spent so much time down at my grandparents' creek over the years and had such a strong interest in that, that we thought it would be better for me to pursue biology as a degree and so that's what I focused on when I went to college.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Okay, that's great.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: And so yeah, I guess anything kind of that you remember and maybe impacted you in college and as a follow up after that is, what kind of made you decide to get a master's in theology or kind of go beyond your bachelor's?
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Brian Torreano: Yeah, well, in college, I had a lot of really good professors.
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Brian Torreano: Dr.
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Brian Torreano: Timothy Ellinger was my Ichthyology professor and I also had a lot of other really good science teachers there and got to learn about all the different species of native fishes in Wisconsin.
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Brian Torreano: There are about 147 different native species of fishes in Wisconsin and only a handful of those will you ever catch on a hook and a line.
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Brian Torreano: Most of them are, you know, three inches or under and they're fish you don't really see real often, but learning about them just fueled my interest and finished my bachelor's in biology and then decided that I wanted to get a master's.
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Brian Torreano: And in the course of getting my master's, the degree ended up being in biological sciences, but my specialty was Ichthyology or the study of fishes.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: And I guess I'm just kind of curious.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: So, you know, obviously, usually when folks pursue a master's, they kind of have some sort of idea what they, what were you thinking you might do with a master's or had you thought about career wise, what you were going to do?
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Brian Torreano: Yeah, the original plan was to try to get into the State Department of Natural Resources, hoping to use my degrees there, but that ended up not working out.
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Brian Torreano: So I did for a few years work at the US EPA in Chicago, but I had an internship there.
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Brian Torreano: And at the end of my internship, I ended up moving back to Wisconsin and just tried to find a good fit for my interests and my degrees, and ended up not really finding a good fit.
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Brian Torreano: So I decided to take my interest in native fishes and my knowledge and start BTDarters.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Okay, great.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Yeah, definitely it turned out to be a good decision.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: So before we talk a little bit more about BTDarters, let's talk about US native fishes.
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Brian Torreano: Sure.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Why aren't they really as commonly kept?
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Dr. Roy Yanong: And maybe tell us some misconceptions about keeping them that might make people less likely to have them?
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Brian Torreano: Yeah, sure.
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Brian Torreano: Well, there are several misconceptions about there with regard to keeping native fishes in the aquarium.
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Brian Torreano: A lot of people think that you need a chiller to keep native fishes.
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Brian Torreano: And for most native fishes, that is not true.
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Brian Torreano: Obviously, if you want to keep like a small trout or a salmon or a sculpin, you'd need a chiller.
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Brian Torreano: But most native fishes are more than comfortable at room temperature aquarium water, which actually becomes a benefit because then you don't need to run a heater to keep them.
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Brian Torreano: Some other misconceptions are that you can only keep native fishes with other native fishes, and that is simply not true.
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Brian Torreano: Over the years, I've kept native fishes with a lot of common tropicals, like Corycats or Angelfish, non-aggressive cichlids, algae eaters, platies, mollies, you name it.
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Brian Torreano: As long as you're meeting the requirements of the native fishes, they're pretty well to be kept with with other tropical fishes.
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Brian Torreano: Some other misconceptions about native fishes that they're all brown and ugly, which is not true.
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Brian Torreano: A lot of the native fishes, especially like the Rainbow Darters that I sell, they have blues and reds and are really, really stunning.
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Brian Torreano: And one US native fish that has actually become famous overseas is the Rainbow Shiner.
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Brian Torreano: They have really bright blues and pinks.
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Brian Torreano: And from what I'm told, they're very popular overseas.
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Brian Torreano: And another misconception is that it's too hard to keep native fishes in aquariums.
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Brian Torreano: And that for the most case is simply not true.
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Brian Torreano: Native fishes can be a lot hardier than Tropical Fishes and can acclimate well to frozen or prepared foods and are really quite easy to keep in the aquarium.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Okay, great.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Well, it sounds like a lot of reasons that maybe people should keep them.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: So as kind of a Nick Theologist, we'll talk a little bit of science here.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: What would you say are kind of the major big taxonomic groupings of natives, especially obviously the ones that you would consider for an aquarium, including, and we'll talk more about the ones you sell as well, but in kind of in general, what would be the major groupings for aquariums?
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Brian Torreano: Sure, major groupings would be darters.
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Brian Torreano: Of course, they're in the perch family.
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Brian Torreano: Other groupings are minnows, cyprinids as they're called.
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Brian Torreano: Some people keep sunfishes or centurions in the aquarium.
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Brian Torreano: Catfishes, we have some species of native catfishes that you can keep in the aquarium.
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Brian Torreano: And there are some other oddball ones like swamp fish and some live bearers too, like least killy fishes that you can keep in the aquarium.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Okay, so you mentioned a few.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: What would be, in your, I guess, opinion, some of the more popular species?
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Dr. Roy Yanong: I think you might have mentioned some of them already, but are there, maybe reiterate what those were and then what maybe a few other ones might be that would be kept.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: And then like where they come from, maybe originally in the US.
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Brian Torreano: Okay, well, for us at BTDarters, the most popular fishes are High Color Rainbow Darter.
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Brian Torreano: They're found east of the Rocky Mountains in the US and have a pretty broad distribution.
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Brian Torreano: And they're fairly easy to keep in the aquarium.
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Brian Torreano: Some other ones that we sell that are popular are a few species of minnows.
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Brian Torreano: They also have a pretty broad distribution east of the Rocky Mountains and also little catfishes, which tend to have smaller range distributions, but are found throughout the Eastern US.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: And for the catfishes, when you say little, like the ones I'm familiar with tend to be kind of bigger.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Are there some that would sort of stay, you know, aquarium hobbyist tank size, or do they all get pretty big?
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Brian Torreano: No, no, no, absolutely.
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Brian Torreano: Especially one of the species we sell, the Tadpole Mantom, that stays six inches or under.
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Brian Torreano: And there are a lot of other mantoms in the Eastern US, some of which we have access to sometimes that stay in the three to four inch range.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: That's great.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: So yeah, obviously had to ask what native species is your favorite.
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Brian Torreano: Well, I'd have to say our High Color Rainbow Darter.
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Brian Torreano: And just to clarify, we call them High Color because we have certain ones that we grade out for higher color intensity and the amount of color on the body.
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Brian Torreano: It's the same species as a regular Rainbow Darter.
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Brian Torreano: It's just, we grade them out for higher color appearance.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Okay.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Now another question obviously is going to be kind of legalities.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: So what are legal issues or can anyone keep native fishes legally?
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Brian Torreano: Well, across the US the legalities vary.
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Brian Torreano: Here in Wisconsin, you can keep a native fish as long as you have proof that you legally obtained it.
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Brian Torreano: So we are permitted by the State Department of Natural Resources as a licensed vendor.
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Brian Torreano: Throughout the US again, the legalities vary from state to state, but we do help people figure that out.
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Brian Torreano: If somebody orders fish from us, we first check with their state to make sure it's okay to send native fishes to that state.
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Brian Torreano: And the reason we do that is because your average person just doesn't know where to find that information or who to contact.
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Brian Torreano: And because we've been doing this for so long, we know where to look and we know who to talk to if necessary to find that information out.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Yeah, that's definitely really helpful because yeah, you're right.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: I mean, most people would have no clue.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: So that's a great service actually.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: So the next question, can anyone just go out and catch their own native fishes or kind of what's your take on that?
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Brian Torreano: Yeah, well, not just anybody can.
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Brian Torreano: There are some states that disallow it.
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Brian Torreano: So we recommend if you want to get out and collect some native fishes, find an expert in your area that knows the laws and knows how to identify the native fishes because yeah, there are thousands of native fishes throughout the US and you don't want to accidentally be taking home something that's a threatened or endangered species or accidentally take home an invasive species or something.
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Brian Torreano: So definitely find an expert in your area and talk to them about it.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Great advice.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Well, you know, let's take a short break.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: We have a lot more questions and a lot more information I know you have for us.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: So we'll take a break and continue our discussion with Brian Torreano, US native fish expert and owner of BTDarters after these messages from our sponsors.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: We're back and continuing our conversation with my guest, Brian Torreano, US.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Native Fish Expert and owner of BTDarters.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: So, Brian, we were talking a little bit about legalities and catching fish, a hobbyist by themselves.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Let's talk about spawning, and I think we'll talk more about the fact that you spawn some fishes as well for your business.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: How hard is it to spawn native fishes?
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Brian Torreano: It really depends on the species.
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Brian Torreano: We have some that we spawn that are quite easy.
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Brian Torreano: For example, our Spotfin shiners.
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Brian Torreano: They have a specific requirement that they are crevice spawners, but if you can provide to them a spawning trap with appropriate size crevices, they're quite easy to spawn.
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Brian Torreano: There are some other species, like our Rainbow-Darters, which are a little harder to spawn, but it can be done.
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Brian Torreano: You just have to know the specific requirements of the fish, and as long as you meet those, the fish are generally, if they're in breeding condition, are pretty apt to spawn.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Okay, and then I guess the follow up to that would be like, in terms of the hatching and the feeding of the larvae and fry, like how is that?
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Is that pretty easy?
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Brian Torreano: That's about standard.
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Brian Torreano: For most of the fish, it's not as easy as like a Mollie or a Platy, where they pop out live young that are eating crumbled up flake food.
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Brian Torreano: For a lot of the natives, you're going to start them on Infusoria or other small prepared foods.
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Brian Torreano: But if you spawned some of the slightly more difficult tropical species, you should have no problem spawning a native species.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: So I know there is a group, the North American Native Fish Association, I think, NANFA.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Can you maybe tell us a little bit about NANFA?
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Dr. Roy Yanong: And I know you had been involved with them as well at some point.
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Brian Torreano: Yes, NANFA is a group of North American native fish hobbyists that have interest in the native fishes of North America, of course.
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Brian Torreano: They have membership throughout the US and throughout the world, actually.
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Brian Torreano: And they have a quarterly 40-page print magazine that they send out.
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Brian Torreano: For nine months, I was actually senior editor of that magazine.
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Brian Torreano: And for many years, I was an associate editor.
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Brian Torreano: They do have a small presence on Facebook as well, but there are a lot of people in that group that are knowledgeable about native fishes and especially legalities throughout the US with regard to keeping native fishes.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: Okay, good to know.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: So we'll talk more about husbandry requirements later, but I kind of wanted to get into your business now.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: So BTDarters, you started talking about it a little bit.
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Dr. Roy Yanong: What made you decide to go into business and specifically with native fishes?
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Dr. Roy Yanong: You talked a little bit about some work you did before, but opening your own business, I know, and I can't even imagine, because I don't have one, must have been really tough.
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Brian Torreano: It wasn't too tough, actually.
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Brian Torreano: I started in 2001, again, when I just was having trouble finding a job that satisfied my interests.
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Brian Torreano: And yeah, it wasn't too difficult to start.
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Brian Torreano: I was living in Waukesha, Wisconsin at the time.
00:18:02.343 --> 00:18:07.143
Brian Torreano: I had several fish tanks and was out catching the native fishes.
00:18:07.163 --> 00:18:12.683
Brian Torreano: And I decided, well, why don't I set up a website and see if I can start selling them?
00:18:14.163 --> 00:18:15.163
Brian Torreano: So that's what I did.
00:18:15.503 --> 00:18:16.743
Dr. Roy Yanong: How did that work?
00:18:16.763 --> 00:18:19.843
Dr. Roy Yanong: I mean, you got, obviously, you had to get like permits, I think, right?
00:18:19.863 --> 00:18:23.303
Dr. Roy Yanong: And then like, how did the response to your website go and all that sort of thing?
00:18:23.723 --> 00:18:32.043
Brian Torreano: Well, yeah, it was actually in 2001, there was nowhere near as many as the permit requirements as there are now.
00:18:32.343 --> 00:18:37.083
Brian Torreano: That was before the VHS fish virus hit Wisconsin.
00:18:37.603 --> 00:18:44.803
Brian Torreano: And pretty much as long as you had a fishing license and a seller's permit, you could sell the native fishes.
00:18:45.383 --> 00:18:47.363
Brian Torreano: So that's how I got started.
00:18:47.383 --> 00:18:49.903
Dr. Roy Yanong: Okay, so not too many challenges then.
00:18:49.923 --> 00:18:51.443
Dr. Roy Yanong: That's pretty good to hear.
00:18:51.743 --> 00:18:56.283
Dr. Roy Yanong: How many different species do you sell and or does it kind of vary depending on?
00:18:56.643 --> 00:18:58.023
Brian Torreano: Yeah, it does vary.
00:18:58.323 --> 00:19:12.463
Brian Torreano: On an average day, I'm selling 23 different species of native fish, but there are certain times throughout the year that I have access to more native species through a supplier in the US South that I have.
00:19:12.803 --> 00:19:18.483
Brian Torreano: So at those times, I can have access to 37 or 38 different species.
00:19:18.623 --> 00:19:19.323
Dr. Roy Yanong: Wow, that's great.
00:19:19.423 --> 00:19:28.103
Dr. Roy Yanong: And you don't have to go into crazy detail, but I assume you have a bunch of tanks at your facility and you're kind of got some breeding tanks or sort of what kind of your setup, I guess.
00:19:28.303 --> 00:19:29.303
Brian Torreano: Yeah, yeah.
00:19:29.323 --> 00:19:31.863
Brian Torreano: Well, right now, I don't have a ton of tanks.
00:19:32.123 --> 00:19:35.143
Brian Torreano: I did between 2022 and 2023.
00:19:35.503 --> 00:19:38.083
Brian Torreano: I did live in Costa Rica for a short while.
00:19:38.083 --> 00:19:38.823
Dr. Roy Yanong: Wow, okay.
00:19:38.843 --> 00:19:42.683
Brian Torreano: And came back and set BTDarters back up.
00:19:42.903 --> 00:20:04.263
Brian Torreano: And so I've only got a few tanks and a few fry tanks, but I do aquaponic filtration on the tanks to keep the water clean and have been able to spawn three different species since I came back to the US my lowland shiners, my black stripe top minnows and my spot fin shiners.
00:20:05.063 --> 00:20:10.983
Brian Torreano: And so I've got fry tanks with them and currently selling some of my spot fin shiners also.
00:20:11.003 --> 00:20:12.043
Dr. Roy Yanong: Okay, great.
00:20:12.263 --> 00:20:14.203
Dr. Roy Yanong: So Costa Rica, you don't have to go.
00:20:14.243 --> 00:20:14.943
Dr. Roy Yanong: That's interesting.
00:20:14.963 --> 00:20:16.543
Dr. Roy Yanong: That's like a long time.
00:20:16.563 --> 00:20:21.743
Dr. Roy Yanong: Anything you want to share or anything kind of interesting or any rationale for going over there?
00:20:21.923 --> 00:20:29.023
Brian Torreano: Yeah, well, I went to Costa Rica because I was a little frustrated with the political climate throughout the US.
00:20:30.723 --> 00:20:35.163
Brian Torreano: It seems, I don't know, it's a frustrating topic, but.
00:20:35.303 --> 00:20:36.503
Dr. Roy Yanong: Oh yeah, no, no problem.
00:20:36.923 --> 00:20:43.923
Brian Torreano: Yeah, I decided to move down there and after 11 months down there, it was really hard to find work down there actually.
00:20:43.943 --> 00:20:46.783
Brian Torreano: And I just was having so much trouble.
00:20:46.803 --> 00:20:48.163
Brian Torreano: I decided to come back.
00:20:48.623 --> 00:20:57.383
Brian Torreano: When I came back, I set BTDarters back up and got it rolling and things have been really good with regard to it since I've been back.
00:20:57.723 --> 00:20:58.183
Dr. Roy Yanong: That's good.
00:20:58.203 --> 00:20:58.983
Dr. Roy Yanong: Well, I'm glad you're back.
00:20:58.983 --> 00:20:59.463
Brian Torreano: Thanks.
00:20:59.663 --> 00:21:03.643
Dr. Roy Yanong: So you mentioned you obviously have some wild caught and some that you're breeding.
00:21:03.883 --> 00:21:09.003
Dr. Roy Yanong: Going into FAQs, we talked a little bit about this when we were going back and forth earlier.
00:21:09.203 --> 00:21:21.543
Dr. Roy Yanong: What does a hobbyist who maybe has a little bit of information on kind of normal tropical fish on Aquaria, but still is really new, what do they need to know to be successful?
00:21:21.923 --> 00:21:26.523
Brian Torreano: Well, I provide care sheets with all of the fishes that I sell.
00:21:26.983 --> 00:21:33.223
Brian Torreano: I also, for most of the species, have the care information linked on my website online.
00:21:33.603 --> 00:21:41.043
Brian Torreano: So anybody can always contact me with regard to questions about the care of the different species.
00:21:41.503 --> 00:21:44.123
Brian Torreano: I do offer some consultation as well.
00:21:44.143 --> 00:22:00.903
Brian Torreano: I do offer some for free and also with the purchase of fishes, but for long or more involved consults, like setting up a display system and needing to know all the details with regard to that, I do charge a fee for that.
00:22:01.483 --> 00:22:04.443
Brian Torreano: There's also a lot of resources online.
00:22:04.863 --> 00:22:08.843
Brian Torreano: NANFA website, as you mentioned, they provide information.
00:22:09.263 --> 00:22:18.203
Brian Torreano: The NANFA Facebook group, there are a lot of other Facebook groups with regard to native fishes, and those can be good sources of information as well.
00:22:18.523 --> 00:22:23.863
Dr. Roy Yanong: Okay, and you mentioned that in general, you can keep a lot of natives with some of the common Tropicals.
00:22:23.883 --> 00:22:38.143
Dr. Roy Yanong: Are they maybe some that you think specifically should not be kept or some that shouldn't be kept with certain fish that maybe, you know, people that have gotten fish from you didn't ask you ahead of time and so had issues?
00:22:38.563 --> 00:22:43.803
Brian Torreano: Well, I try not to offer any species that you wouldn't want to keep with other fish.
00:22:44.243 --> 00:22:52.703
Brian Torreano: I mean, there are some instances, like you want to avoid a fish that is going to be able to eat your other fishes just based on size difference.
00:22:53.023 --> 00:23:00.063
Brian Torreano: But in general, I try to offer species that are good community fishes and do well with others.
00:23:00.923 --> 00:23:07.483
Dr. Roy Yanong: So I guess another question is always going to be, you know, parasites and maybe potential transfer.
00:23:07.603 --> 00:23:17.523
Dr. Roy Yanong: Are there more problems with some of the, like wild caught natives, for example, versus, you know, some of the more common aquarium fish with regard to parasites, or how do you kind of handle that?
00:23:17.803 --> 00:23:24.063
Brian Torreano: Yeah, well, wild caught natives can have parasites that are also common to tropical fishes.
00:23:24.443 --> 00:23:33.083
Brian Torreano: But what I do with all my wild caught fishes, I prophylactically treat them for internal and external parasites to remove any.
00:23:33.563 --> 00:23:42.603
Brian Torreano: So if somebody buys fishes from me, they're assured that they're getting parasite free fishes that aren't going to infect the fishes that they currently have in their aquarium.
00:23:43.283 --> 00:23:43.583
Dr. Roy Yanong: Okay.
00:23:43.803 --> 00:23:56.763
Dr. Roy Yanong: So maybe kind of going off, some of the questions I asked earlier, would you recommend any specific species as maybe the easiest native to start with and any additional info that would be required for that species?
00:23:57.163 --> 00:23:57.943
Brian Torreano: Sure, sure.
00:23:57.963 --> 00:24:02.483
Brian Torreano: Well, one super easy species to start with is our Common Shiners.
00:24:02.823 --> 00:24:06.223
Brian Torreano: They are a small-ish species of minnow.
00:24:06.243 --> 00:24:17.823
Brian Torreano: They can get up to about seven inches when they get large, but they're really great community fishes and can live just fine in a tropical fish aquarium.
00:24:18.283 --> 00:24:25.403
Brian Torreano: They'll eat flake food all day long and they're really well-suited to anybody's aquarium.
00:24:25.683 --> 00:24:28.703
Dr. Roy Yanong: Can you describe, like, what do they kind of look like appearance-wise?
00:24:28.723 --> 00:24:29.423
Brian Torreano: Yeah, sure.
00:24:29.723 --> 00:24:32.603
Brian Torreano: Well, they look like your typical minnow.
00:24:32.743 --> 00:24:35.903
Brian Torreano: They're flat-sided and silvery.
00:24:36.303 --> 00:24:38.283
Brian Torreano: Breeding males are bright red.
00:24:38.323 --> 00:24:42.583
Brian Torreano: If you ever have the chance to see a breeding male, they're really incredible.
00:24:43.063 --> 00:24:52.443
Brian Torreano: But your average everyday appearance is a silvery fish that is sort of minnow-shaped and very active, like to swim around also.
00:24:52.743 --> 00:24:54.003
Dr. Roy Yanong: How about the most difficult?
00:24:54.023 --> 00:24:59.903
Dr. Roy Yanong: What would be a really interesting but difficult fish, maybe for an hobbyist that's a little bit more advanced?
00:25:00.163 --> 00:25:05.803
Brian Torreano: Well, probably our fiery black shiners are the most difficult ones to keep.
00:25:06.203 --> 00:25:11.343
Brian Torreano: They come from the American South in swiftly moving, highly oxygenated waters.
00:25:12.143 --> 00:25:17.803
Brian Torreano: And they really do need to be kept in an aquarium with a lot of water movement.
00:25:18.163 --> 00:25:27.803
Brian Torreano: In the past, I've had experience with them that if you don't keep them with a fair bit of water movement, they will develop spinal problems and can perish.
00:25:28.303 --> 00:25:33.503
Brian Torreano: So you really need to meet that specific requirement to have good success with them.
00:25:34.043 --> 00:25:35.803
Dr. Roy Yanong: Okay, and can you maybe describe them?
00:25:35.823 --> 00:25:36.883
Dr. Roy Yanong: How do they look?
00:25:36.903 --> 00:25:47.503
Brian Torreano: Yeah, well, they're the standard minnow shape, too, like the common shiners, but these guys have red and black on the tails and sort of a little bit of red on the fins.
00:25:47.523 --> 00:25:56.583
Brian Torreano: And the body is gray to white, and they develop, males will develop little bumps on their nose called tubercles.
00:25:57.223 --> 00:26:00.443
Brian Torreano: And they're just, they're really beautiful and interesting.
00:26:00.463 --> 00:26:06.663
Brian Torreano: I've got a video of one of my previous fiery black shiners that I had up on my YouTube channel.
00:26:07.583 --> 00:26:08.003
Brian Torreano: Yeah.
00:26:08.403 --> 00:26:20.063
Dr. Roy Yanong: So speaking of Difficult Fish and things like, including within that kind of just even transport in general, where have you sent native fishes and are there problems with kind of shipping them or depending on where people are?
00:26:20.783 --> 00:26:23.183
Brian Torreano: Yeah, let me touch on the shipping first.
00:26:23.703 --> 00:26:36.263
Brian Torreano: So what I do to ship is the fishes are put a few fish in a bag, double bagged with supplemental oxygen, and then they get put in a Styrofoam lined box.
00:26:36.703 --> 00:26:46.843
Brian Torreano: We most often ship through USPS Priority, which is a few day service, but with the way in which we ship them, we have extremely good success.
00:26:47.223 --> 00:26:55.283
Brian Torreano: Over the 20 some years I've been doing this, I've only lost in total like a couple dozen fish.
00:26:56.243 --> 00:26:59.283
Brian Torreano: So we have really good success with that.
00:26:59.303 --> 00:27:07.143
Brian Torreano: And as far as where we've shipped, we've shipped to as far as Alaska on the West Coast and as far as DC on the East Coast.
00:27:07.143 --> 00:27:09.603
Brian Torreano: And again, we're based in Wisconsin.
00:27:09.623 --> 00:27:15.043
Brian Torreano: So we've got a broad area we cover and have really good success with sending the fish.
00:27:15.223 --> 00:27:15.683
Dr. Roy Yanong: That's good.
00:27:15.863 --> 00:27:16.483
Dr. Roy Yanong: Good to know.
00:27:16.643 --> 00:27:19.003
Dr. Roy Yanong: So you mentioned your YouTube channel.
00:27:19.023 --> 00:27:25.703
Dr. Roy Yanong: Do you have any other resources online that will be helpful for current or future native fish keepers and you wanna maybe talk about those?
00:27:26.043 --> 00:27:26.763
Brian Torreano: Yeah, sure.
00:27:26.843 --> 00:27:37.403
Brian Torreano: Well, of course we'd have to mention our website, btdarters.com, trying to provide a lot of information there to help anybody out with any questions they may have about the native fish.
00:27:37.663 --> 00:27:41.343
Brian Torreano: Also, we've got a community on COFI.
00:27:41.523 --> 00:27:48.883
Brian Torreano: That's cofi.com/btdarters where currently we have a lot of photos and info about native fishes.
00:27:48.903 --> 00:27:56.103
Brian Torreano: And that's also meant to be like a discussion forum where people can ask questions and get their questions answered.
00:27:56.403 --> 00:27:57.983
Brian Torreano: Those are some really good resources.
00:27:58.383 --> 00:28:03.063
Brian Torreano: And again, we do also have a YouTube channel with videos of our fishes.
00:28:03.403 --> 00:28:09.563
Brian Torreano: And that's where we try to provide a lot of helpful information or those resources.
00:28:09.743 --> 00:28:10.463
Dr. Roy Yanong: Okay, great.
00:28:10.463 --> 00:28:11.303
Dr. Roy Yanong: Sounds like quite a bit.
00:28:11.323 --> 00:28:11.643
Brian Torreano: Yeah.
00:28:11.863 --> 00:28:13.983
Dr. Roy Yanong: Well, unfortunately we're out of time.
00:28:14.243 --> 00:28:22.443
Dr. Roy Yanong: I wanted to thank you, Brian, very much for your time and expertise and definitely enjoyed kind of going through some of your online resources.
00:28:22.703 --> 00:28:25.723
Dr. Roy Yanong: Learned a lot and obviously learned more talking with you right now.
00:28:25.743 --> 00:28:28.623
Dr. Roy Yanong: I want to thank our producer, Mark Winner, for making the show possible.
00:28:28.863 --> 00:28:35.983
Dr. Roy Yanong: So Brian, do you have any final words of wisdom about native fishes or anything in particular you want to add?
00:28:36.463 --> 00:28:36.883
Brian Torreano: Sure.
00:28:36.883 --> 00:28:44.723
Brian Torreano: Well, with regard to native fishes, a little bit of wisdom would be to keep your fishes clean, well oxygenated and well fed.
00:28:44.743 --> 00:28:46.883
Brian Torreano: That's the best wisdom I can give you.
00:28:47.103 --> 00:28:47.603
Dr. Roy Yanong: All right.
00:28:47.623 --> 00:28:48.243
Dr. Roy Yanong: Thanks for that.
00:28:48.523 --> 00:28:55.623
Dr. Roy Yanong: So please be sure to check out Brian's BTDarter site and his other social media links, which we'll find on his Aquariumania episode page.
00:28:55.903 --> 00:29:02.263
Dr. Roy Yanong: If you have any questions, comments or ideas for a show, email me at drroy at petliferadio.com.
00:29:02.283 --> 00:29:05.603
Dr. Roy Yanong: That's D-R-R-O-Y at petliferadio.com.
00:29:05.903 --> 00:29:11.523
Dr. Roy Yanong: Until next time, please visit your local Aquarium stores, keep your tanks clean and consider going native.
00:29:12.243 --> 00:29:15.283
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