Sy Montgomery - What The Chicken Knows
Joining me for this episode is New York Times bestselling author Sy Montgomery. We have a chat about Sy’s latest book What The Chicken Knows. The book takes a closer look at the brilliance of all types of chickens, to which most humans give little thought. Have a listen and gain a new and different appreciation to the world’s most familiar bird. Enjoy!
Listen to Episode #223 Now:
BIO:
Sy Montgomery is a naturalist, documentary scriptwriter, and author of thirty-one acclaimed books of nonfiction for adults and children, including The Hummingbirds’ Gift, the National Book Award finalist The Soul of an Octopus, and the memoir The Good Good Pig, which was a New York Times bestseller. The recipient of numerous honors, including lifetime achievement awards from the Humane Society and the New England Booksellers Association, she lives in New Hampshire with her husband, writer Howard Mansfield, and a border collie.
Transcript:
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Announcer: This is Pet Life Radio.
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Announcer: Let's talk pets.
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Tim Link: Welcome to Animal Writes on Pet Life Radio.
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Tim Link: This is your host, Tim Link, and I'm so glad you're joining us today.
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Tim Link: Super excited to have an old pal come back on the show.
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Tim Link: She's got a wonderful new book called What the Chicken Knows.
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Tim Link: A new appreciation of the world's most familiar bird.
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Tim Link: So I'm gonna be excited to talk about that.
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Tim Link: Of course, we're talking about the New York Times best-selling author, Sy Montgomery.
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Tim Link: And of course, you know, we're from all of her outstanding books, Soul of an Octopus, and many, many more.
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Tim Link: So we're gonna talk to Cy a little bit about the book and what we know and don't know about chickens.
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Tim Link: And then we'll talk a little bit about writing in general and how she creates her craft and puts together such a fun and interesting book each and every time.
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Tim Link: So everybody hang tight.
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Tim Link: We'll come back right after this commercial break.
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Tim Link: You're listening to Animal Writes on Pet Life Radio.
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Tim Link: See you soon.
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Tim Link: I wanna find out if they truly understand.
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Tim Link: Thank you.
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Tim Link: If you're trying to tell them or wish you could build a better understanding and closer relationship with your pet, well, now you can.
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Tim Link: Learning to communicate with animals is a four-part on-demand workshop.
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Tim Link: In the workshop, you'll learn the essential techniques that are necessary to communicate with animals, including what is animal communication, breathing correctly to achieve the perfect state to communicate with your animals at a deeper level, using guided meditation exercises and method to communicate with animals, and how to send and receive information from your animals.
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Tim Link: So, if you're wanting to learn how to communicate and connect with your animals at a deeper level, visit petliferadio.com/workshop and purchase and download Learning to Communicate with Animals.
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Tim Link: You'll be glad you did.
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Announcer: Let's Talk Pets on petliferadio.com Welcome back to Animal Writes on Pet Life Radio.
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Tim Link: Joining us now is New York Times bestselling author.
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Tim Link: You know her from The Soul of an Octopus, and you'll soon to know her from her latest book, What The Chicken Knows, a new appreciation of the world's most familiar bird.
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Tim Link: First, we're talking to Sy Montgomery.
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Tim Link: Sy, welcome back to the show.
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Sy Montgomery: Oh, I'm so glad to be with you again.
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Tim Link: We're thrilled to have you back on.
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Tim Link: I always love it when I get contacts to say, hey, Sy's got a new book coming out, because it's always to me, it's very interesting.
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Tim Link: It's very intriguing, but it's also very quirky because you know, you investigate what the octopus knows.
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Tim Link: And so we're not talking about just dogs and cats.
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Tim Link: And in this case, we're talking about a chicken, or the chickens, or all chickens, or the superior bird of all time, the chicken.
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Tim Link: So tell us a little bit about the book, What The Chicken Knows.
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Sy Montgomery: Well, everyone, even if you can't identify a robin or tell a robin from a crow, everyone knows what a chicken is.
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Sy Montgomery: But strangely, almost everything we know about chickens is wrong.
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Sy Montgomery: If you ask most people who don't have chickens, what do you know about chickens?
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Sy Montgomery: They'll often say, oh, they're really stupid birds.
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Sy Montgomery: Or they'll say, ooh, they're, they're dirty.
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Sy Montgomery: Or they'll say, they're nasty tempered.
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Sy Montgomery: And this is absolutely false.
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Sy Montgomery: And I think it might come from folks who met chickens in a bad way.
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Sy Montgomery: I mean, most of us have, I don't, but many of us are most intimate relationship with chickens occurs when they're lying dead and cooked on your plate.
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Sy Montgomery: And this is not the best way to get to know anybody.
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Sy Montgomery: So I got to know chickens who were allowed to roam completely freely all over our eight acres.
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Sy Montgomery: They eventually annexed our neighbor's yard as well, did not cross the street.
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Sy Montgomery: And I got to watch them interact with another flock of chickens.
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Sy Montgomery: I got to be able to understand a little bit of what they were saying.
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Sy Montgomery: I got to see how important their social life was and how intelligent they really are.
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Sy Montgomery: They're not just these feathered automatons that walk around saying, buck, buck, buck, buck, ah.
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Tim Link: A master writer and a voiceover artist.
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Tim Link: So I think he got so much faster.
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Tim Link: The interesting thing you say about that, because I think you're absolutely right.
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Tim Link: When we often think about chickens, we think about if those who eat meat, how they're consumed, or we see them just walking around aimlessly.
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Tim Link: I know my grandparents had chickens all over their farm, and it was for food purposes, but you just see them rambling around everywhere.
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Tim Link: But then I got to know a little bit more about myself, and actually one of our neighbors, until the Homeowner Association found out about it.
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Tim Link: We don't have eight wonderful acres around in our establishment, but our neighbors had one.
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Tim Link: It was very decorative, and it was a pet, and it was one that she kept indoors for the most part.
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Tim Link: So I think that the enamored part of it is people look at the basic chicken that we see, the white feathered chicken, often or the brown feathered chicken.
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Tim Link: But actually the chicken has a long history and a very colorful history as well.
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Sy Montgomery: They've been domesticated for a very long time.
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Sy Montgomery: And they come from, as I'm sure you know, they come from the Asian jungle fowl.
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Sy Montgomery: And I have met wild Asian jungle fowl in Asia, of all places.
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Sy Montgomery: And they look exactly like the chicken on the Kellogg's cornflakes box.
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Sy Montgomery: They just look like they jumped right off that box.
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Sy Montgomery: But people have bred chickens to look every which way.
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Sy Montgomery: The only animal I can think of that might be more plastic in its, you know, its many breeds might be pigeons or dogs.
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Sy Montgomery: So there are chickens with poofy top knots.
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Sy Montgomery: There are chickens with, they have fancy feather feet.
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Sy Montgomery: They look like they're walking around in their dad's bedroom slippers or something.
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Sy Montgomery: There's chickens with such long tails, that they can be sitting high on their perch, and their tail feathers will be dragging on the ground.
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Sy Montgomery: There's little bitty chickens and great big chickens, and there's chickens with like curly feathers and sleek feathers and feathers that are outlined in dark.
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Sy Montgomery: They are called Mille Fleurs.
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Sy Montgomery: They're gorgeous, gorgeous birds.
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Sy Montgomery: But besides what they look like, and besides the delicious eggs that they give us, and besides the fact that many people eat chickens, they are such fascinating animals to get to know.
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Sy Montgomery: Once you get yourself in that beginner's mind, don't project onto the chicken what you want to see, and let the chicken show you who they really are.
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Sy Montgomery: And you will come away with such respect for these animals, with admiration, with actual awe.
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Sy Montgomery: And I have been learning about chickens.
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Sy Montgomery: Well, I had a flock for 20 years.
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Sy Montgomery: The flock changed members, but the flock itself was a cultural institution for 20 years.
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Sy Montgomery: And since then, even after living with chickens and observing them very closely for 20 years, I just learned gobsmackingly new things about roosters a couple of years ago, when my neighbor catty-cornered across the street, showed me what to do with a rowdy rooster.
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Sy Montgomery: Believe it or not, on my street is a rooster rescue.
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Sy Montgomery: And I never heard them crow, by the way, but they do crow.
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Sy Montgomery: And so I'm learning new stuff every single day about these animals, even after having lived with them and observed them closely for 20 years.
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Tim Link: That is fascinating.
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Tim Link: Now, see, I'm a big fan, as you know, of rescues of all sorts.
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Tim Link: I used to be a president of a humane society, and I've worked with sanctuaries and zoos and you name it.
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Tim Link: I don't know.
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Tim Link: I reflect back.
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Tim Link: I've worked with roosters before, but I don't know if I ever heard about rooster rescue.
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Sy Montgomery: Yeah, she didn't start out to do this.
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Sy Montgomery: But people don't know what to do with roosters.
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Sy Montgomery: I mean, often they don't know that their little chick has a 50 percent chance of turning out to be male.
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Sy Montgomery: And when he begins to crow, they may be like, right, well, what am I going to do?
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Sy Montgomery: The other thing that sometimes happens with roosters is, they'll be sweet and they'll be your friend and they'll be super smart.
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Sy Montgomery: And then one day, they will turn.
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Sy Montgomery: And this happened to us.
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Sy Montgomery: My husband was fixing the lawnmower one more time, and you're lying on the ground when you're fixing the lawnmower.
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Sy Montgomery: And underneath the lawnmower, he saw these big scaly feet hurrying towards him, towards his face in a menacing way.
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Sy Montgomery: And he leapt to his feet just in time to avoid the spurs.
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Sy Montgomery: So, you know, what do you do now?
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Sy Montgomery: Well, I did not know at the time.
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Sy Montgomery: My husband didn't know at the time.
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Sy Montgomery: But I know now what you do.
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Sy Montgomery: And thanks to Ashley Nagley, I know that you do the absolute opposite of what anyone would normally think they ought to do.
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Sy Montgomery: You do not run away.
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Sy Montgomery: You do not just block the chicken.
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Sy Montgomery: You don't certainly don't kick the chicken or hurt the chicken.
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Sy Montgomery: What do you do when a rooster attacks you?
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Sy Montgomery: You pick him up and cuddle him and carry him around.
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Sy Montgomery: And that sounds insane, but it really works.
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Sy Montgomery: And I have met her rooster.
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Sy Montgomery: She's not accepting new roosters anymore because she was just getting inundated with roosters.
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Sy Montgomery: But her roosters are the sweetest, nicest gentlemen that you could ever meet.
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Sy Montgomery: They do not attack her.
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Sy Montgomery: They do not attack her two children.
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Sy Montgomery: They do not attack her husband.
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Sy Montgomery: They are wonderful companions and super curious and packed with personality.
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Sy Montgomery: One of them loves to watch her husband work on the car, as if he's watching so carefully he's going to go off after this and work on his car.
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Sy Montgomery: Another one loves to go in the house and loves to drink out of one particular mug.
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Sy Montgomery: And another one thoughtfully brings her gifts.
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Sy Montgomery: I mean, sometimes it'll be like a gasket or a nail, but still, you know, how kind.
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Sy Montgomery: And he carefully brings it and presents it to her in a really generous way.
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Sy Montgomery: So roosters can be fabulous if you know how to handle them.
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Tim Link: And by picking up the book What The Chicken Knows, you'll know how to do that, right?
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Sy Montgomery: Yes, you will.
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Tim Link: So it has to, obviously, you know, your fans are listening to the show.
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Tim Link: I know that for sure.
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Tim Link: And they know sort of, you know, can't wait to see what the next topic is.
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Tim Link: But I have to sit back here as a novice.
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Tim Link: It's like, I'm seeing on the shelf What The Chicken Knows.
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Tim Link: And somebody wrote a book about chickens and roosters.
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Tim Link: I have to ask, what compelled you of all things?
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Tim Link: Now, I know you, obviously, we talked about, you know, the octopus, the hummingbird.
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Tim Link: We had a book on the hawk, which I love.
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Tim Link: Now, all of a sudden, we're talking about chickens.
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Tim Link: How did that come about?
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Tim Link: Was it just a matter of you were observing your own environment and your own chickens?
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Tim Link: Or was there epiphany, a dream state that said, I've got to write a book about chickens and roosters and such?
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Sy Montgomery: Well, part of the impetus to write this was everyone got chickens during the pandemic.
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Sy Montgomery: But a lot of people just dumped their chickens in the woods when they went back to work.
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Sy Montgomery: And so to those who got chickens and fell in love with chickens, this book is a love story for you, and you'll totally connect with that.
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Sy Montgomery: But for those who don't realize that chickens are super intelligent, super social, they're emotional creatures, they have memories, they anticipate the future.
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Sy Montgomery: For folks who don't know that, this book is meant to allow you to be in awe of the most common and unappreciated bird on the planet.
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Tim Link: Very good.
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Tim Link: I love that.
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Tim Link: I love that.
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Tim Link: Well, you know, I've had clients, like I mentioned before, over the years, contact me about their own pet chickens and pet roosters.
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Tim Link: And when I get contacted, it's either a behavioral issue with them or one that's missing, one that's lost or even been stolen.
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Tim Link: And so I get contact.
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Tim Link: And even to this day, I've been doing this type of work for 20 years.
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Tim Link: And I step back, someone sends me a note saying, my chicken's missing.
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Tim Link: And you think, okay, I can't find it.
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Tim Link: Yeah, because I can't find my chicken.
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Tim Link: I'm like, okay, is this real or not?
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Tim Link: Because I think you're right.
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Tim Link: We think a lot about, most of us love animals.
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Tim Link: We think about the animals in our life, domesticated, say dogs and cats, maybe horses, things of this sort.
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Tim Link: But that's changed over the years.
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Tim Link: Now, a domesticated animal, especially with our younger Gen Zs, we'll say bearded dragons and spiders and snakes, and all these things are domesticated animals, these type of things.
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Tim Link: And then of course, then you're talking about when you're dealing with wildlife, sanctuaries, so on and so forth.
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Tim Link: But I don't think people have recognized necessarily all the things you mentioned on the show here, as well as in the book, that, you know, chickens are far more than just for consumption or laying eggs.
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Tim Link: Yes, they can do that, but there is a long history and the intelligence and all the beauty in a lot of them as well.
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Sy Montgomery: Yeah, for a chicken, the thing that strikes me so much, and I find tremendously moving, is that to a chicken, their social relationships are absolutely central to their lives.
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Sy Montgomery: And this is something that we value as humans in ourselves.
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Sy Montgomery: The average chicken can recognize at least 100 different faces, and they know who we are as well.
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Sy Montgomery: So they're not just mindlessly walking around saying the same thing.
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Sy Montgomery: I'm a chicken, you're a chicken.
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Sy Montgomery: I'm a chicken, you're a chicken.
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Sy Montgomery: They communicate in pretty sophisticated ways with each other, and essentially, relationships are everything to them.
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Tim Link: I love that.
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Tim Link: I love the parallel behind that.
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Tim Link: And yeah, I could probably pick out 100 familiar faces.
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Tim Link: Now, I don't know if I know their names.
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Tim Link: That's the thing.
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Tim Link: I probably know their dogs and cats names, but I'm not sure about the people.
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Sy Montgomery: Chickens actually, at least one that I know of, made up a name for her person.
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Sy Montgomery: And this was by my friend Melissa, who wrote a wonderful book, How To Speak Chicken.
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Sy Montgomery: And I met her in Washington when one of her books and one of mine were getting an award from AAAS.
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Sy Montgomery: And she was telling me that there is this sound.
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Sy Montgomery: It's a series of, it kind of goes, bah, bah, bah, bah, sounds almost like a trumpet announcing the queen.
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Sy Montgomery: And her chicken, Tilly, was the only one in the flock that said this, but only said this when she was there.
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Sy Montgomery: And we figured out that Tilly had made up a name for Melissa.
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Sy Montgomery: And Tilly is gone now, but the other chickens now use that, bah, bah, bah, bah, they use that for Melissa's names.
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Sy Montgomery: And as you know, there's a number of animals that we know use names for their fellows, which includes some species of birds and of course dolphins with their signature whistles.
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Tim Link: Very nice.
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Tim Link: I love that.
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Tim Link: I love that.
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Tim Link: Oh, that's perfect.
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Tim Link: Well, listen, we're going to take a quick commercial break.
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Tim Link: Then we'll come back and talk more to New York Times bestselling author, Sy Montgomery.
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Tim Link: I talked to her about the book, What The Chicken Knows, A New Appreciation of the World's Most Familiar Bird, and also chat with Sy to pick up a little bit about writing in general.
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Tim Link: So everybody hang tight.
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Tim Link: We'll come back right after this commercial break.
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Tim Link: You're listening to Animal Writes on Pet Life Radio.
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00:17:41.520 --> 00:17:42.700
Announcer: Let's Talk Pets.
00:17:42.700 --> 00:17:43.600
Announcer: Let's Talk Pets.
00:17:43.600 --> 00:17:44.620
Announcer: On Pet Life Radio.
00:17:44.680 --> 00:17:45.960
Announcer: Pet Life Radio.
00:17:45.960 --> 00:17:51.240
Announcer: petliferadio.com.
00:17:51.240 --> 00:17:54.620
Tim Link: Welcome back to Animal Writes on Pet Life Radio.
00:17:54.620 --> 00:17:58.580
Tim Link: In your conversation with the New York Times best-selling author, Sy Montgomery.
00:17:58.580 --> 00:18:06.220
Tim Link: Now, Sy, when putting together the book and learning more about chickens than anybody outside of Colonel Sanders probably knows.
00:18:06.220 --> 00:18:07.180
Tim Link: Oh, that was terrible.
00:18:07.180 --> 00:18:08.060
Tim Link: We'll edit that one out.
00:18:08.060 --> 00:18:09.340
Tim Link: Don't worry about it.
00:18:09.340 --> 00:18:14.600
Tim Link: But learning more and learning the fascination behind them, what's your goal in writing this particular book?
00:18:15.120 --> 00:18:19.720
Tim Link: When people pick it up and read What The Chicken Knows, what do you hope they gain from that?
00:18:19.720 --> 00:18:28.880
Sy Montgomery: Well, I think all of my books are really love stories, and there's their accounts of gratitude and awe.
00:18:28.880 --> 00:18:35.280
Sy Montgomery: And the chicken was the perfect subject because here is this very, very common animal.
00:18:35.280 --> 00:18:38.720
Sy Montgomery: There are four chickens for every human on earth.
00:18:38.720 --> 00:18:40.960
Sy Montgomery: So, you know, there's a lot of them around.
00:18:41.620 --> 00:18:52.240
Sy Montgomery: And this animal offers us an opportunity for connection, for admiration, for astonishment.
00:18:52.240 --> 00:18:55.740
Sy Montgomery: But it's the commonest bird there is.
00:18:55.740 --> 00:18:57.780
Sy Montgomery: So what a great thing.
00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:05.920
Sy Montgomery: That was my goal as, you know, my pan of praise to my friends who were chickens.
00:19:05.920 --> 00:19:06.680
Tim Link: There you go.
00:19:06.680 --> 00:19:07.340
Tim Link: I love that.
00:19:07.340 --> 00:19:08.140
Tim Link: I love that, you know.
00:19:08.620 --> 00:19:13.000
Tim Link: And it is, you know, we love all the animals around us, for us animal lovers.
00:19:13.000 --> 00:19:20.640
Tim Link: Some we dive deeper into, whether they're animals in our lives, or just we have a fascination or a general connection with the animals.
00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:24.920
Tim Link: I know your great book about hawks, you know, that's connection, that's a spirit guide for me.
00:19:24.920 --> 00:19:28.700
Tim Link: And, you know, I'm always fascinated by the various types of hawks around.
00:19:28.700 --> 00:19:42.160
Tim Link: But I will say, you know, I worked with chickens, as I mentioned, I know I've been around them, but this actually take time to learn the nuances of them and the uniqueness of the different characteristics they have, is something I probably hadn't done.
00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:46.240
Tim Link: So with your book, What The Chicken Knows, definitely learn a little bit more about them.
00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:47.940
Sy Montgomery: Oh, I'm thrilled to hear that.
00:19:47.940 --> 00:19:52.560
Sy Montgomery: I mean, when you think of it, when you talk about a coward, you say they're chicken.
00:19:52.560 --> 00:19:55.940
Sy Montgomery: When you talk about someone stupid, you say they're a bird brain.
00:19:55.940 --> 00:19:58.260
Sy Montgomery: And all of these things are false.
00:19:58.260 --> 00:20:03.200
Sy Montgomery: I can tell you amazing stories of roosters who chased off a fox.
00:20:04.040 --> 00:20:11.240
Sy Montgomery: You know, I can tell you of mother hens that risked everything for their youngsters.
00:20:11.640 --> 00:20:14.000
Sy Montgomery: They're not frady cats.
00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:24.900
Sy Montgomery: They're extremely brave, but you've got to remember because they're birds, they're made of air, which should increase our admiration for their courage when they do show it.
00:20:24.900 --> 00:20:34.300
Sy Montgomery: But they're also not idiots because, you know, for big predators coming after you, very often, the smartest thing you can do is retreat and hide.
00:20:34.300 --> 00:20:45.140
Sy Montgomery: And deciding on a good place to hide requires, one, it requires memory of the last time this happened, and anticipation of what's going to happen next.
00:20:45.140 --> 00:20:49.820
Sy Montgomery: So, you know, they learn and they act on what they have learned.
00:20:50.300 --> 00:20:52.760
Sy Montgomery: They're super smart birds, actually.
00:20:52.760 --> 00:20:54.500
Sy Montgomery: We just don't see it.
00:20:54.500 --> 00:20:55.300
Tim Link: No, we don't.
00:20:55.300 --> 00:20:55.940
Tim Link: But we do hear it.
00:20:55.940 --> 00:21:07.500
Tim Link: I will say this, if you live in a neighborhood, or even if you live more in the rural areas, and you're the only one that has a street light near your house, turn that sucker off, or have the city turn it off.
00:21:07.660 --> 00:21:13.880
Tim Link: The reason I say that is, both when I was growing up, we had the only street lamp on our street.
00:21:13.880 --> 00:21:20.820
Tim Link: And during a visit to Key West, we had the only street lamp behind the room that we were staying in Key West.
00:21:20.820 --> 00:21:24.720
Tim Link: And on both occasions, that's where the rooster roosted.
00:21:24.800 --> 00:21:25.840
Sy Montgomery: Oh my gosh.
00:21:25.840 --> 00:21:29.200
Tim Link: As soon as the street light came on, yeah, it was a serenade.
00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:30.160
Tim Link: At first, it's kind of cute.
00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:33.280
Tim Link: And after about three in the morning, the inside now, that's not so cute anymore.
00:21:34.700 --> 00:21:35.580
Sy Montgomery: Wow.
00:21:35.580 --> 00:21:43.400
Sy Montgomery: Well, that's real good advice, Tim, too, for all wildlife, because artificial lighting is a big problem for migrating birds.
00:21:43.400 --> 00:21:50.780
Sy Montgomery: It's a death trap for all kinds of night flying insects, many of whom are pollinators.
00:21:50.780 --> 00:21:59.680
Sy Montgomery: It's bad for bats in many ways, because they'll be attracted to the insects and smack into some car that's going by.
00:21:59.680 --> 00:22:00.280
Tim Link: Yeah.
00:22:00.280 --> 00:22:05.460
Sy Montgomery: It's a good idea to keep our night skies clear so we can see the stars.
00:22:05.460 --> 00:22:06.100
Tim Link: I like that.
00:22:06.100 --> 00:22:07.220
Tim Link: That's a good point.
00:22:07.220 --> 00:22:15.380
Tim Link: And we know that with my work with, I've worked with sea turtles and stuff, so we know about keeping the lights off, especially during the hatchling times.
00:22:15.380 --> 00:22:15.620
Sy Montgomery: Absolutely.
00:22:15.620 --> 00:22:19.700
Tim Link: So they know to follow the moon to the sea instead of back to your house.
00:22:19.700 --> 00:22:21.500
Tim Link: So good news about that.
00:22:21.500 --> 00:22:23.080
Tim Link: So let's pick your brain a little bit about writing.
00:22:23.280 --> 00:22:24.700
Tim Link: You know a little bit about that.
00:22:24.700 --> 00:22:30.360
Tim Link: You know, best-selling author, you're a screenwriter, you've written many acclaimed books.
00:22:30.360 --> 00:22:34.700
Tim Link: I see 31 non-fiction acclaimed books for adults and children.
00:22:34.700 --> 00:22:35.640
Sy Montgomery: It's 38 now.
00:22:35.640 --> 00:22:36.580
Tim Link: 38, hi.
00:22:36.580 --> 00:22:37.480
Sy Montgomery: It's 38.
00:22:37.480 --> 00:22:41.920
Sy Montgomery: And for some, well, you know, Wikipedia and stuff just doesn't catch up fast enough.
00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:44.440
Sy Montgomery: I'm writing faster than they can even catalog.
00:22:44.440 --> 00:22:47.580
Tim Link: Right, right, left and right going out the door.
00:22:47.580 --> 00:22:49.220
Tim Link: So let's talk a little bit about that.
00:22:49.220 --> 00:22:52.560
Tim Link: First of all, you know, how do you keep the momentum going?
00:22:52.700 --> 00:22:56.380
Tim Link: Is it your fascination about things going on, the demand?
00:22:56.380 --> 00:23:01.440
Tim Link: I mean, we're talking about, obviously you've been a writer for your short young lifetime.
00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:05.080
Sy Montgomery: My 66 year old lifetime, I've been writing professionally.
00:23:05.080 --> 00:23:07.520
Sy Montgomery: Well, I wrote for money in college.
00:23:07.520 --> 00:23:10.000
Sy Montgomery: I had a full time job in college.
00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:16.340
Sy Montgomery: In fact, that's how I met my husband, Howard Mansfield, who is also a full time author.
00:23:16.340 --> 00:23:25.540
Sy Montgomery: So in our house, you have two full time authors with working with no net, you know, we don't, you know, we aren't employed by anyone.
00:23:25.540 --> 00:23:27.920
Sy Montgomery: We have no regular income.
00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:30.980
Sy Montgomery: We just write and we love the writing life.
00:23:30.980 --> 00:23:33.860
Tim Link: Because the writing life can be challenging.
00:23:33.860 --> 00:23:35.280
Tim Link: I'm sure it's changed a lot.
00:23:35.280 --> 00:23:38.060
Tim Link: And I'm not talking about going from typewriters to computers.
00:23:38.060 --> 00:23:45.740
Tim Link: I'm talking about money and shifts and conglomerates buying, magazines and publishing houses consolidating.
00:23:45.740 --> 00:23:48.540
Tim Link: There's a lot of shifting and changing going on this industry.
00:23:49.060 --> 00:24:04.600
Tim Link: How do you, as someone just getting into this or starting to write, what advice do you have for them to A, make a living at this, and B, navigating all these constant changes in the publishing industry and the entertainment industry as a whole?
00:24:04.600 --> 00:24:05.460
Sy Montgomery: Yeah, it's hard.
00:24:05.460 --> 00:24:14.720
Sy Montgomery: You know, one of my majors in college, as was Howard's, was magazine journalism and magazines of all but disappeared.
00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:23.620
Sy Montgomery: But the first thing I would say is if you love writing, learn to revel in that love and not the love of a bunch of stuff.
00:24:23.620 --> 00:24:31.220
Sy Montgomery: Because you can live on the scent of an oily rag if you are doing something that you love.
00:24:31.220 --> 00:24:36.300
Sy Montgomery: For many years, we did live on the scent of an oily rag, but look what we got to do.
00:24:36.300 --> 00:24:38.820
Sy Montgomery: I mean, I've traveled all over the world.
00:24:38.820 --> 00:24:47.620
Sy Montgomery: I've gone to so many places and seen so many amazing creatures that the wealthiest person in the world could not have bought my experience.
00:24:48.200 --> 00:25:01.900
Sy Montgomery: And I was able to do it because I'm a writer and because I was going to bring the story of that place and that landscape and those animals and those people back to a readership in the United States and beyond.
00:25:01.900 --> 00:25:04.500
Sy Montgomery: So writing can give you everything.
00:25:04.500 --> 00:25:12.900
Sy Montgomery: So clear the decks, you know, and it is hard to make money writing.
00:25:12.900 --> 00:25:14.780
Sy Montgomery: Make everything you write work for you.
00:25:15.860 --> 00:25:27.040
Sy Montgomery: You know, when you write an article for a newspaper or you write an article for an online thing, there's always sections that you cut out.
00:25:27.040 --> 00:25:33.960
Sy Montgomery: Can that be another article that doesn't cost you anymore to research but that you could sell somewhere else?
00:25:33.960 --> 00:25:41.760
Sy Montgomery: Did you take pictures that you could sell somewhere with the fascinating caption that you're going to write?
00:25:42.860 --> 00:25:45.060
Sy Montgomery: Can you do an audio thing?
00:25:47.120 --> 00:25:55.380
Sy Montgomery: Can you do…I mean, there's just all of these different ways to connect with readers now that didn't exist before, and that's a plus.
00:25:55.380 --> 00:26:12.320
Sy Montgomery: But I'm not going to kid people, it's difficult starting out right now, and it's very different from what my husband and I did in 1979 when we graduated from Syracuse University, although he had a book contract right out of school.
00:26:12.320 --> 00:26:17.960
Sy Montgomery: I worked for a newspaper for five years, which was a fabulous experience.
00:26:17.960 --> 00:26:20.320
Sy Montgomery: Gave me deadline experience.
00:26:20.320 --> 00:26:22.700
Sy Montgomery: There were five deadlines a day.
00:26:22.700 --> 00:26:28.720
Sy Montgomery: It gave me the experience of having many different people edit me, which is really good.
00:26:28.720 --> 00:26:34.940
Sy Montgomery: And I think best of all, 60,000 people were reading my words, and I heard from those readers.
00:26:36.180 --> 00:26:38.460
Sy Montgomery: So that was fabulous.
00:26:38.460 --> 00:26:49.380
Sy Montgomery: So newspapers are a really good thing, even though they're shrinking, shrinking, shrinking, newspapers are accepting more stuff from freelance writers as their staff shrink.
00:26:49.380 --> 00:26:54.680
Sy Montgomery: So that's a place to start getting your writing out there.
00:26:54.680 --> 00:27:02.160
Sy Montgomery: And I know people all think that they should do a blog, and I have never had a blog, so I can't really tell you about it.
00:27:03.120 --> 00:27:10.140
Sy Montgomery: Except with a blog, you don't necessarily get any editing, and editing is so helpful.
00:27:10.140 --> 00:27:23.800
Sy Montgomery: So I'd say, try to get your writing into the hands of an editor who will edit you and who will connect you with a readership beyond your Facebook friends.
00:27:24.420 --> 00:27:25.060
Tim Link: That makes sense.
00:27:25.060 --> 00:27:28.540
Tim Link: It's a whole different gamut, yet a different skill set there.
00:27:28.540 --> 00:27:32.520
Tim Link: And it's hard, you're right, it's hard to find good editors or editors at all.
00:27:32.520 --> 00:27:32.840
Sy Montgomery: Right.
00:27:32.840 --> 00:27:43.440
Tim Link: Even when you hit land a publishing deal, if you can get an editor who's willing to spend time with your manuscript and give you insight to what you're writing is hard to come by nowadays.
00:27:43.440 --> 00:27:55.380
Tim Link: I found one of the most fascinating, I've been part of a couple of clubs, organizations, whether I'm here in the Georgia area, so part of the Georgia Writers Association, Atlanta Writers Club, et cetera.
00:27:55.380 --> 00:28:11.980
Tim Link: And they're chock full of people that are not only up and coming writers or authors or have published books before, but they're also, they have guests coming in, they have side groups that are set aside to help edit the books and to give you insight and tidbits.
00:28:11.980 --> 00:28:18.260
Tim Link: So, you know, you don't have to spend a fortune and it's a great place to get in contact with people and learn the craft.
00:28:18.260 --> 00:28:23.720
Tim Link: And even if you've been doing it for a while, to pick the brains of others, to find another new idea.
00:28:23.720 --> 00:28:24.340
Sy Montgomery: That's terrific.
00:28:24.340 --> 00:28:26.220
Sy Montgomery: I bet they love it when you show up.
00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:28.080
Tim Link: I don't know.
00:28:28.080 --> 00:28:30.940
Tim Link: I think they put the no sell sign on the door or something.
00:28:30.980 --> 00:28:33.920
Tim Link: We're out for lunch or something when I show up.
00:28:34.120 --> 00:28:34.720
Tim Link: But it's true.
00:28:34.840 --> 00:28:41.940
Tim Link: I can remember having talks over the years and people say, well, how do you get into the whole writing game publishing?
00:28:41.940 --> 00:28:44.440
Tim Link: One of the first questions I asked them is, what do you want to be?
00:28:44.440 --> 00:28:47.000
Tim Link: If you want to be an author, what do you want to be?
00:28:47.000 --> 00:28:51.800
Tim Link: And they're all like, well, I want to be a best-selling author and make tons of money.
00:28:51.800 --> 00:28:58.760
Tim Link: I'm like, well, yeah, so do 99 percent of the other people, because only 1 percent actually get to that realm.
00:28:58.760 --> 00:29:00.780
Tim Link: But there are plenty of opportunities to write in.
00:29:00.780 --> 00:29:09.620
Tim Link: I think with the downsizing and the consolidation of the industry and making it tougher in a lot of the cases, there's also more opportunities.
00:29:09.620 --> 00:29:14.000
Tim Link: There's more, like you said, more avenues to get your message out there than there ever was before.
00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:15.300
Tim Link: So I think that's the key.
00:29:15.300 --> 00:29:16.940
Tim Link: I think you hit it spot on.
00:29:16.940 --> 00:29:24.140
Tim Link: You write and you write and you write and you find ways to rewrite what you've written and get the message out in a different format or for a different area.
00:29:24.180 --> 00:29:30.320
Tim Link: And even the money's a nickel here, a nickel there, it's more nickels than you had before you started.
00:29:30.320 --> 00:29:30.820
Sy Montgomery: That's right.
00:29:30.820 --> 00:29:35.620
Sy Montgomery: And you can live well, very cheaply as we have learned.
00:29:37.120 --> 00:29:42.260
Sy Montgomery: Between us, Howard and I have more than 50 books that we've published.
00:29:42.260 --> 00:29:50.200
Sy Montgomery: But for many years, we were not exactly rolling in the money, but we were always happy.
00:29:50.200 --> 00:29:57.540
Sy Montgomery: So if you want to be a best-selling author and make a whole lot of money, I say, pair that down.
00:29:57.540 --> 00:30:04.860
Sy Montgomery: If you want to be an author, don't count on it being a best-seller right away, and don't count on making a lot of money.
00:30:04.860 --> 00:30:05.880
Tim Link: You hit a spot on me.
00:30:05.880 --> 00:30:11.340
Tim Link: If you talk to some of the biggest names out there, oftentimes you'll hear them call it as an overnight sensation.
00:30:11.340 --> 00:30:14.240
Tim Link: It's like, yeah, an overnight sensation, it took 20 years.
00:30:14.240 --> 00:30:15.780
Sy Montgomery: Right.
00:30:15.780 --> 00:30:17.280
Sy Montgomery: That's totally true.
00:30:17.280 --> 00:30:17.940
Sy Montgomery: And you know what?
00:30:17.940 --> 00:30:30.520
Sy Montgomery: One time, I went out to dinner with Peter Matheson, who wrote The Snow Leopard, and he was a National Book Award winner, and he was like a god up there.
00:30:30.520 --> 00:30:33.240
Sy Montgomery: He was paying for the dinner because I had no money.
00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:35.100
Sy Montgomery: He ordered a lot of stuff.
00:30:35.100 --> 00:30:41.920
Sy Montgomery: I mean, I think he had like a soup, and then he had food, and then he had liquor, and I had this little tiny thing.
00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:49.200
Sy Montgomery: Well, his credit card was declined, and I thought, oh my gosh, this is my hero.
00:30:49.420 --> 00:30:59.640
Sy Montgomery: He's been writing, he's the pinnacle of success, and they're sending back his credit card, and I had to pay for it, and we didn't have the money.
00:30:59.640 --> 00:31:00.480
Sy Montgomery: Oh my gosh.
00:31:00.700 --> 00:31:01.660
Sy Montgomery: He made it good, though.
00:31:01.900 --> 00:31:09.120
Sy Montgomery: He went back to New England Aquarium, which was where the two of us were both speaking on a panel, and got them to cover it.
00:31:09.120 --> 00:31:09.920
Tim Link: There you go.
00:31:09.920 --> 00:31:10.600
Tim Link: There you go.
00:31:10.600 --> 00:31:11.280
Tim Link: Hit number one.
00:31:11.280 --> 00:31:14.660
Tim Link: If you're going to be speaking somewhere, get them to cover everything, as much as you can.
00:31:16.580 --> 00:31:23.880
Tim Link: Well, Sy, where can people pick up a copy of the book, What The Chicken Knows, and keep track of all the wonderful activities you got going on?
00:31:23.880 --> 00:31:28.480
Sy Montgomery: Well, the book should be around stores and stuff and online as well.
00:31:28.480 --> 00:31:36.200
Sy Montgomery: Although, of course, it's always great to go into your neighborhood independent bookstore and to keep track of where I am.
00:31:36.200 --> 00:31:42.020
Sy Montgomery: And if I'm speaking in your town, my webpage is symontgomery.com.
00:31:42.980 --> 00:31:45.620
Sy Montgomery: My appearances are all on symontgomery.com/appearances.
00:31:47.540 --> 00:31:57.340
Sy Montgomery: And there's a news section, symontgomery.com/news, which will keep you up to date on all the different great critters that I get to meet.
00:31:57.340 --> 00:31:57.820
Tim Link: Love it.
00:31:57.820 --> 00:31:58.100
Tim Link: Love it.
00:31:58.100 --> 00:31:59.420
Tim Link: Well, we'll get that message out.
00:31:59.420 --> 00:32:04.700
Tim Link: Everybody go pick up a copy of the book and learn about chickens, but also learn about great writing.
00:32:04.700 --> 00:32:13.000
Tim Link: It's What The Chicken Knows, a new appreciation of the world's most familiar bird by New York Times bestselling author, Sy Montgomery.
00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:14.800
Tim Link: Sy, thanks for coming back on the show.
00:32:14.800 --> 00:32:17.700
Tim Link: Congratulations on another successful book.
00:32:17.700 --> 00:32:23.700
Tim Link: And yeah, we'll look forward to having you come back on the show for the next book and the next critter you take on board.
00:32:23.700 --> 00:32:25.420
Tim Link: We'll see what that's going to be about.
00:32:25.420 --> 00:32:26.100
Sy Montgomery: Awesome, Tim.
00:32:26.100 --> 00:32:28.280
Sy Montgomery: I can't wait to talk to you again.
00:32:28.280 --> 00:32:29.320
Tim Link: Thank you.
00:32:29.320 --> 00:32:29.620
Sy Montgomery: All right.
00:32:29.620 --> 00:32:31.220
Tim Link: Well, we're coming to the end of the show today.
00:32:31.220 --> 00:32:34.900
Tim Link: I want to thank everyone for listening to Animal Writes on Pet Life Radio.
00:32:34.900 --> 00:32:37.760
Tim Link: I want to thank the producers and sponsors for making this show possible.
00:32:38.380 --> 00:32:49.580
Tim Link: If you have any questions, ideas, comments for the show, you can get ahold of us at petliferadio.com, and we'll be glad to answer your questions, entertain your comments, and bring on the people you want to hear from most.
00:32:49.580 --> 00:32:52.760
Tim Link: While you're there, check out all the other wonderful shows and hosts.
00:32:52.760 --> 00:32:58.340
Tim Link: It's a cornucopia of fun, click and swim and bark and fun, petliferadio.com.
00:32:58.480 --> 00:33:05.900
Tim Link: Until next time, write a great story about the animals in your life, and who knows, you may be the next guest on Animal Writes at Life Radio.
00:33:05.900 --> 00:33:06.400
Tim Link: Have a great day.
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:10.740
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