Dr. Jeff Feinman - End of Life Decisions
From the minute we bring a tiny kitten into our homes, we know our days with them are numbered. Their lives are so much shorter than ours and someday, we will all face that moment of decision: should I keep treating my sick cat, or should I let him go? Is he happy or is he suffering? If kitty is very sick and we know he’s at end of life, do we let nature take its course at home or do we help with euthanasia? How do we know when it's time to help? We are so thankful Dr. Jeff Feinman is back to talk to us about this difficult decision and what we can do now, to help our cats live as long as possible and to be aware of the changes we may not notice.
Listen to Episode #137 Now:
BIO:
Jeffrey Feinman, BA, VMD, CVH, graduated in 1985 from the University of Pennsylvania and was Penn’s first veterinary dual-degree University Scholar, holding both molecular biology and veterinary degrees.
Dr. Jeff is devoted to researching about how to harness the innate power of the individual using Vitality and Balance. He and his wonderful wife Amy live with Archie, a rescue pup, and a Rex cat named Tigger.
Transcript:
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Announcer: This is Pet Life Radio.
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Announcer: Let's talk pets.
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Linda Hall: Hello, my cat-loving friends.
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Linda Hall: We have got a return visitor.
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Linda Hall: We love him so much, Dr.
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Linda Hall: Jeff Feinman.
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Linda Hall: He is a veterinarian with a degree in molecular biology, so we know he's really smart.
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Linda Hall: And his focus is on holistic, which we love.
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Linda Hall: And he's here today to talk about end-of-life decisions.
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Linda Hall: That is something that we all deal with if we have an animal, right?
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Linda Hall: Their lives are very short.
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Linda Hall: Do we help them?
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Linda Hall: Do we let them go at home?
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Linda Hall: It's a struggle we all deal with, so we are so grateful that he's here to talk to us.
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Linda Hall: We will be right back after this word from our sponsor.
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Linda Hall: Hey, it's Linda Hall from 19 Cats and Counting.
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Rita Reimers: And I'm Rita Reimers from 19 Cats and Counting.
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Rita Reimers: You know the expression that cats have nine lives?
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Rita Reimers: Well, what if you can give them one more?
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Rita Reimers: The Give Them Ten movement is on a mission to help give cats an extra life.
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Linda Hall: How?
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Linda Hall: With spay and neuter.
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Linda Hall: Spaying or neutering your cat helps them live a longer, healthier life.
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Linda Hall: And it helps control the free roaming cat populations too.
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Linda Hall: You can learn more about the benefits of spay and neuter and meet Scooter, the neutered cat, at givethemten.org.
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Rita Reimers: That's GiveThem T-E-N dot org.
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Announcer: Let's talk pets on petliferadio.com.
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Linda Hall: Welcome back to 19 Cats and Counting, I am your co-host, Linda Hall, here with my gorgeous blonde BFF, my partner in crime, we don't talk about the crimes though, and my work wife, my business partner, Rita Reimers.
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Rita Reimers: I can't believe you said that.
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Rita Reimers: Just everybody, she didn't say it.
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Linda Hall: No, there's no crime.
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Linda Hall: Erase the tape, erase the tape.
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Linda Hall: Erase the tape, erase the tape.
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Linda Hall: Yes.
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Linda Hall: So you and I both, we've had a lot of cats.
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Rita Reimers: Yeah.
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Linda Hall: We've had a lot of end of life.
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Rita Reimers: I was counting up and since I moved back here to the Carolinas, I've lost 12.
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Linda Hall: That's what happens when you have this many, right?
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Rita Reimers: I know.
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Rita Reimers: And I still have 19 here.
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Rita Reimers: So you do that.
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Linda Hall: Yeah.
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Linda Hall: We lose them, we gain them.
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Linda Hall: We lose them, we gain them.
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Linda Hall: It's a never ending, it's a never ending compare.
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Rita Reimers: Linda, you had a bad August and September.
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Linda Hall: I had a very bad August and September.
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Linda Hall: And I cannot wait to talk to Dr.
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Linda Hall: Jeff about this because yeah, it's really tough trying to make those decisions.
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Linda Hall: So thank you for coming back and for tackling this tough subject with us, Dr.
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Linda Hall: Jeff.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: Thank you for having me.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: You know, I love talking to you guys for any reason, any topic.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: So thank you, thank you, thank you.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: This is really, really important.
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Rita Reimers: That's our pleasure to have you here.
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Linda Hall: So the struggle always is, you know, did I wait too long?
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Linda Hall: Do I need to help them?
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Linda Hall: Right.
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Linda Hall: And, you know, we mentioned I lost three recently.
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Linda Hall: Tiger was 21.
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Linda Hall: We'd been expecting it a long time.
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Linda Hall: He way outlived what we expected.
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Linda Hall: Thank God.
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Linda Hall: And he really just went to sleep.
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Linda Hall: And it was the end and it was beautiful.
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Linda Hall: And I'm so grateful that I didn't shove him in a carrier and take him to a vet's office with barking dogs and put him through all that.
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Linda Hall: I was so thankful.
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Linda Hall: Unfortunately, that is the first one I've had that's like, yeah, you're 21.
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Linda Hall: You lay down, you went.
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Linda Hall: We were here.
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Linda Hall: It was great.
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Linda Hall: The rest are all a struggle.
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Linda Hall: So we're ready for your input on this.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: I would love to start by asking you a question.
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Linda Hall: Yes.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: In what way was Tiger's 21 years beyond what you expected?
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: Was it hendosis and disease or his age or?
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Linda Hall: It is his age.
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Linda Hall: And I said, you know, it didn't occur to me till you said that.
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Linda Hall: That is kind of a sad commentary that we don't expect our cats to live that long.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: And that is exactly why I asked the question.
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Linda Hall: You got me.
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Linda Hall: You got me.
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Linda Hall: You're right.
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Linda Hall: Once he hit about 17, we're like, we're on borrowed time, baby.
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Linda Hall: Love him while you got him.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: As a commercial vet, I'd say after 14, we can say that.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: And the reality is after maybe 20, you can say that.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: Yes.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: I mean, you know, you got snow gale pope and you know, she was adopting 18 year old cats that already helped challenge and they lived into their thirties sometimes.
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Rita Reimers: I know.
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Rita Reimers: I can't imagine.
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Rita Reimers: I keep telling my sweetie pie she needs to live to be 35.
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Linda Hall: At least.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: Yeah.
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Linda Hall: At least.
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Linda Hall: That would be nice.
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Linda Hall: Yes, exactly.
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Linda Hall: And I do think we have gotten more holistic.
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Linda Hall: We have started adding a PEA has been a huge.
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Linda Hall: Oh, my goodness.
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Linda Hall: What an amazing supplement.
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Rita Reimers: For me personally too.
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Linda Hall: Yes, we're both now taking it personally.
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Linda Hall: It started with the cats and yes, and we add other supplements.
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Linda Hall: And I do think that that has really helped add to their lives the more natural approach.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: Well, we talked a bit about this beforehand, but I think the bottom line really is go with the flow.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: And go with the flow means go with the flow of nature, which means working with the body instead of against it.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: That's what the natural supplement to decide to do, not anti-this or anti-that.
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Linda Hall: Absolutely.
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Linda Hall: And it was a good 21 years, right?
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Linda Hall: It wasn't the nursing home cat that just lays there.
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Linda Hall: He was moving, he was coming up and down the stairs.
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Linda Hall: He was jumping up on things.
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Linda Hall: He certainly wasn't a kitten anymore, but it was good years.
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Linda Hall: Missy too.
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Linda Hall: It wasn't the torture.
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Rita Reimers: We lost Missy at 20 in January.
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Rita Reimers: And again, they were good years.
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Rita Reimers: She wasn't like languishing.
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Rita Reimers: It's just one day it was just, it was time, you know.
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Linda Hall: So like I said, this was so much better having them die at home and be with us.
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Linda Hall: But there are times we need to help, right?
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Linda Hall: Where does that line draw and how, because that's where we all second guess ourselves, right?
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: Yeah, I think our focus needs to be on health span and not lifespan and not length of life, but quality of life.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: And that kind of reframes all vet care, because vet care is designed on getting rid of symptoms, managing diseases and irrespective of quality of life.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: And what I found of the years is that by focusing on quality of life throughout life, they live longer and they die like tiger died.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: And I just want to reframe this whole discussion a little bit.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: The story from my book, Health to Pet Wellness, and that is a human story.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: My uncle Aki, who used to travel the world, on many of the world shows in Russian, Israel and all over all of the place.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: And he would always leave from the Jamaica, Queens train station because he lived alone.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: He did this on his own and he was frail and happy, and he was really a guru.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: And then one day, just collapsed on the train station on his way to Israel.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: And that was it.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: As the energy that enlivens the body just leaves.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: And that's what happened to Tiger is he just went to sleep, and his energy just went away.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: And yeah, and that's kind of what we want.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: We want to live well until we stop.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: This one, and how do you make the decision?
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: Go back to quality of life.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: Go back to that measurement of quality of life that starts as soon as you get a pup or kitten.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: In this case, especially kitten or young cat or rescue cat at any age.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: Focus on their beam, behavior, energy, appetite, mood.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: That's a biomarker, just like any other blood test or other tests that you can get.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: But the beam score is a measure of quality of life, and the balance of the flow of the energy in the body.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: You focus on that beam throughout life.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: That's how you'll know at the end of life what you should do.
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Linda Hall: That was amazing.
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Linda Hall: So it's behavior, energy, appetite.
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Linda Hall: What was the M?
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: Mood.
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Linda Hall: Mood.
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Linda Hall: Awesome.
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Linda Hall: Oh, that's amazing.
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Linda Hall: That is great.
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Rita Reimers: That makes sense.
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Rita Reimers: I'm just thinking back to some of the cats that I had to make the decision for, and I think they definitely fit that criteria.
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Rita Reimers: But you still, you always second guess.
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Rita Reimers: Did I, who am I to play God?
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Rita Reimers: Did I take them a minute too soon?
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Rita Reimers: Did I let them suffer a minute too long?
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: They're never, I mean, I just went for this with my beloved baby boy and spoke with a bunch of animal communicators and soul communicators and my dog directly, and everyone's the same thing.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: They know that we're always doing the best we can.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: Whatever we decide, they're okay if they're not suffering at the end of life.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: We may be suffering.
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Linda Hall: Yes, we are, exactly.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: And they may have some discomfort, they may have some pain, but they're not worried about what if, what if I did this, what if I did what's my, that's not the way animals work.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: They're living in the moment.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: And I think that's the key really is-
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Linda Hall: You're right.
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Dr. Jeff Feinman: Looking at what's in front of you and that's what the being helps you do is it helps you look at life as it is at this moment.
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Linda Hall: Yeah, I think it helps to if you can bring somebody in that you trust to get, you know, a friend because Lovey.
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Linda Hall: I had a cat who had cancer, they were moved and it came back.
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Linda Hall: And when you're living it, you don't see it as much.
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Linda Hall: Right.
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Linda Hall: So I came to visit her.
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Linda Hall: I knew it was getting close and I didn't want her to be alone to do this.
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Linda Hall: So I came to see her.
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Linda Hall: The smell of that cat's body, it wasn't good.
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Linda Hall: And Lovey, Lovey liked me, but Lovey was never my Lovey until that trip.
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Linda Hall: He came, he laid on my chest.
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Linda Hall: I sleep on her couch because I like all the cats around me.
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Linda Hall: And he laid on my chest and he just looked at me.
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Linda Hall: And I swear everything in my body was like, he's asking for help.
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Linda Hall: And I looked him in the eyes and I said, I got you, babe.
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Linda Hall: And I talked to Rita and she said, I knew it was getting close.
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Linda Hall: And I said, I'm not going to tell you what to do.
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Linda Hall: That is not my place.
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Linda Hall: But she made the decision.
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Linda Hall: We went together and honestly, it was beautiful because at the vet, I sat in the chair behind her.
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Linda Hall: I was just support, right?
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Linda Hall: And so what?
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Rita Reimers: I was just going to say, I still at that point, I knew it was the right thing to do.
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Rita Reimers: But you know, even all the way to the vet's office, and I'm like, am I really doing the right thing?
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Linda Hall: Exactly.
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Linda Hall: And life is not something to be taken lightly.
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Linda Hall: But I was sitting in this chair just as a support for Rita.
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Linda Hall: And Rita is at the table with Lovie and with the vet.
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Linda Hall: And Lovie started reaching for me.
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Linda Hall: So I got up out of my chair and we did it together.
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Linda Hall: And there was real beauty in that.
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Linda Hall: It still gets me.
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Linda Hall: It's been a couple of years.
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Linda Hall: It still gets me.
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Rita Reimers: I think we even got to my vet.
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Rita Reimers: And you know, he must do this a lot.
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Rita Reimers: But yeah, he was choking.
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Rita Reimers: Yeah.
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Rita Reimers: I even got to Dr.
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Rita Reimers: Flynn.
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Rita Reimers: Yeah.
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Linda Hall: It was a beautiful moment.
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Linda Hall: I felt like Lovie was thanking me.
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Linda Hall: Thanks Aunt Linda for helping.
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Linda Hall: Thanks for being there for mom.
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Linda Hall: And you know, I want you up in here, not as an observer.
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Linda Hall: It was, I will never forget that.
00:12:01.165 --> 00:12:18.005
Dr. Jeff Feinman: And that is so, so important because that is phase of life that can indeed be the most transformative and the most healing, even though the end is the end, but yet I feel the end with my beloved baby boy.
00:12:18.005 --> 00:12:33.905
Dr. Jeff Feinman: And many of our pets is really just the beginning because the reality is, I think we know by physics and the conservation of energy, we know their spirit and their energetic force is always with us.
00:12:33.925 --> 00:12:39.545
Dr. Jeff Feinman: And I know, well, mucking gets inox will start to cry harder, but.
00:12:39.545 --> 00:12:40.425
Dr. Jeff Feinman: I get it.
00:12:40.425 --> 00:12:43.985
Dr. Jeff Feinman: I know that that Archie is still with me.
00:12:43.985 --> 00:12:44.705
Linda Hall: Oh, definitely.
00:12:44.705 --> 00:12:48.845
Dr. Jeff Feinman: And I see him every, well, bit from day.
00:12:48.845 --> 00:12:54.845
Linda Hall: Yeah, you catch out of the corner, your eye or I hear, we lost our Chihuahua, it was a year ago, August.
00:12:54.845 --> 00:12:57.965
Linda Hall: And every once in a while I hear the tip, tip, tip on the hardwood floors.
00:12:58.065 --> 00:12:58.965
Linda Hall: It's not a cat.
00:12:58.965 --> 00:13:01.125
Linda Hall: And I'm like, Sadie, right?
00:13:01.125 --> 00:13:05.985
Linda Hall: Like they just sometimes, I think they just stay nearby just to let you know they're okay.
00:13:05.985 --> 00:13:10.185
Rita Reimers: Yeah, I'm pretty sure I've caught pumpkin in my peripheral vision every now and then.
00:13:10.185 --> 00:13:11.705
Rita Reimers: Yeah, he was a special kitty.
00:13:11.705 --> 00:13:13.145
Rita Reimers: He died at home too.
00:13:13.145 --> 00:13:20.765
Rita Reimers: You know, it's a great gift when you can let them die naturally, but there's just times when it's not possible and you've got to do it in the suffering.
00:13:20.805 --> 00:13:37.145
Dr. Jeff Feinman: Yeah, if they're uncomfortable and I mean, I'm a big advocate of homeopathy near the end of life because homeopathy is transformative for those states where they're restless or you think they're uncomfortable.
00:13:37.245 --> 00:13:52.985
Dr. Jeff Feinman: I mean, I've seen maybe hundreds of cases, and I know Gail Pope has seen hundreds or even thousands, where I mean, her cats all lived, as long as it lives thanks to homeopathy.
00:13:52.985 --> 00:13:57.325
Dr. Jeff Feinman: You know, Gail's formula is the love sandwich.
00:13:57.325 --> 00:14:00.705
Dr. Jeff Feinman: Love them to death when they're young and throughout life.
00:14:00.765 --> 00:14:05.265
Dr. Jeff Feinman: She was homeopathy and supportive care throughout life.
00:14:05.265 --> 00:14:08.205
Dr. Jeff Feinman: And then more love, new band of life.
00:14:08.205 --> 00:14:13.485
Dr. Jeff Feinman: And yes, that's Ease's transition, and Ease is our moms.
00:14:13.485 --> 00:14:14.245
Linda Hall: Yeah, it does.
00:14:14.245 --> 00:14:14.985
Linda Hall: It does.
00:14:15.345 --> 00:14:17.685
Linda Hall: And you know, isn't this all we committed to?
00:14:17.685 --> 00:14:18.685
Linda Hall: We brought them into our home.
00:14:18.685 --> 00:14:22.085
Linda Hall: We've committed to not only the best life, but the best death, right?
00:14:22.085 --> 00:14:25.005
Linda Hall: The best transition to the next plane.
00:14:25.005 --> 00:14:27.225
Linda Hall: Yeah, this is, we owe them nothing less.
00:14:27.225 --> 00:14:31.625
Rita Reimers: Let's take a little break here to hear from our wonderful sponsor, and we'll get back.
00:14:31.625 --> 00:14:33.305
Rita Reimers: I've got a couple of questions for Dr.
00:14:33.305 --> 00:14:33.645
Rita Reimers: Jeff.
00:14:33.645 --> 00:14:35.185
Dr. Jeff Feinman: We'll be right back.
00:14:37.665 --> 00:14:42.585
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00:15:57.725 --> 00:15:58.545
Announcer: PetLife Radio!
00:16:09.568 --> 00:16:11.728
Rita Reimers: And we're back with 19 Cats and Counting.
00:16:11.728 --> 00:16:15.028
Rita Reimers: We're talking about making that end of life decision.
00:16:15.028 --> 00:16:18.868
Rita Reimers: Unfortunately, I lost my mom two weeks ago today.
00:16:18.868 --> 00:16:32.328
Rita Reimers: So this topic sort of reminds me of losing my mom, but my mom, she went at home, I think, the way we wish our pets would at home, in her surroundings, and she was fine until she wasn't.
00:16:32.508 --> 00:16:35.668
Rita Reimers: She didn't linger, she wasn't sick for a long time.
00:16:35.668 --> 00:16:48.188
Rita Reimers: But it's those ones that linger, and the ones that are sick, and we try to figure out where do we draw the line and say, okay, that's enough medication and care, and it's better to just let them go.
00:16:48.188 --> 00:16:48.508
Rita Reimers: Dr.
00:16:48.508 --> 00:16:57.368
Rita Reimers: Jeff, another question I have is that a lot of time, these vet's offices, they aren't letting you be with your cat or dog when they put them down.
00:16:57.368 --> 00:17:00.308
Rita Reimers: How important is it that we be with our pets?
00:17:00.308 --> 00:17:16.868
Dr. Jeff Feinman: That's a great question, and I think the answer to that question and your previous question that I didn't answer is, you've got to what feels right for you, because whatever you do is going to be okay with your kitty.
00:17:18.048 --> 00:17:21.628
Dr. Jeff Feinman: I'm a big advocate of homely, homely nations.
00:17:21.808 --> 00:17:26.308
Dr. Jeff Feinman: They pet at home, but they can generally.
00:17:26.308 --> 00:17:27.608
Rita Reimers: Definitely.
00:17:27.608 --> 00:17:30.448
Rita Reimers: Both Linda and I live in teeny towns where we don't have them.
00:17:30.448 --> 00:17:41.288
Dr. Jeff Feinman: Kind of the pet office, they take your pet away, and that was kind of the way we did it 20, 30 years ago, but not so much.
00:17:41.288 --> 00:17:43.008
Linda Hall: Mom are still doing it, exactly.
00:17:43.008 --> 00:17:45.608
Rita Reimers: Yeah, they took them in the back to put the catheter in.
00:17:45.608 --> 00:17:46.928
Rita Reimers: Why did they do that?
00:17:46.928 --> 00:17:47.468
Linda Hall: Yeah.
00:17:47.468 --> 00:17:50.528
Linda Hall: I want them to stay with me and not get scared, right?
00:17:50.528 --> 00:17:50.828
Dr. Jeff Feinman: Yeah.
00:17:50.828 --> 00:17:53.428
Dr. Jeff Feinman: So they then actually euthanized them in the back.
00:17:53.568 --> 00:17:57.048
Dr. Jeff Feinman: They put the catheter in and then brought them back out.
00:17:57.048 --> 00:17:57.708
Linda Hall: Yeah.
00:17:58.508 --> 00:18:00.268
Linda Hall: The cat's sick, the cat's suffering.
00:18:00.268 --> 00:18:01.288
Linda Hall: This is a strange place.
00:18:01.288 --> 00:18:02.688
Linda Hall: These are strangers.
00:18:02.688 --> 00:18:07.028
Linda Hall: I want to hold them from door to gone.
00:18:07.028 --> 00:18:09.408
Dr. Jeff Feinman: You shouldn't be able to do that.
00:18:10.468 --> 00:18:21.608
Linda Hall: We have seen when Rita's Punkin, and he was a very old man, there was no question he was older than his years, and we all knew.
00:18:21.608 --> 00:18:26.428
Linda Hall: And he kept trying to die at home, and she kept coming in like, Punkin, are you okay?
00:18:26.428 --> 00:18:33.868
Linda Hall: And he kept sending her these clear messages of go away, and he kept looking for places to hide.
00:18:33.868 --> 00:18:37.648
Linda Hall: He wanted to do this on his own, and he did.
00:18:37.648 --> 00:18:38.848
Rita Reimers: But he wouldn't do it in front of me.
00:18:39.188 --> 00:18:42.448
Rita Reimers: Any time I went near him, he looked up at me like, get out of here.
00:18:42.448 --> 00:18:43.288
Linda Hall: Exactly.
00:18:43.288 --> 00:18:44.608
Rita Reimers: Exactly.
00:18:44.608 --> 00:18:46.908
Linda Hall: Trying to do something here, people.
00:18:48.228 --> 00:18:56.448
Dr. Jeff Feinman: Yeah, they do know instinctively, often that's when they go under the bed or in the closet, keep themselves.
00:18:56.508 --> 00:19:07.168
Dr. Jeff Feinman: And there are the ones like my Archie that just always wanted to be with you, and ended up dying in my arms.
00:19:07.168 --> 00:19:07.928
Linda Hall: Oh, Dr.
00:19:07.928 --> 00:19:09.128
Linda Hall: Jeff.
00:19:09.128 --> 00:19:09.868
Linda Hall: Heartbreaking.
00:19:09.868 --> 00:19:11.708
Linda Hall: Yeah.
00:19:11.708 --> 00:19:16.048
Linda Hall: About a week after we lost Tiger, we were about to get into a behavior session.
00:19:16.048 --> 00:19:18.728
Linda Hall: We were literally right here waiting to push the button.
00:19:18.728 --> 00:19:23.028
Linda Hall: And my daughter came to the door and said, something's wrong with Inky, his legs won't work.
00:19:23.028 --> 00:19:27.248
Linda Hall: And I got out of the session, God bless Rita, it was like, go, go.
00:19:27.248 --> 00:19:33.188
Linda Hall: And I started calling around, I couldn't get him in anywhere, I got in small town living, I couldn't get him in anywhere till the next day.
00:19:33.188 --> 00:19:39.948
Linda Hall: He seemed to be stabilizing and I put him on a heating pad and I was loving all over him, he wouldn't eat.
00:19:39.948 --> 00:19:45.048
Linda Hall: And then all of a sudden out of nowhere, my daughter had left the room and he was great for a while.
00:19:45.048 --> 00:19:50.808
Linda Hall: And then all of a sudden out of nowhere, he was trying to drag himself like to the end of the bed and yelling.
00:19:50.808 --> 00:19:57.948
Linda Hall: I yelled for my daughter, she came in, she put her hand out, he laid his head in her hand and he was gone.
00:19:57.948 --> 00:20:04.248
Linda Hall: He was gone about three hours, almost to the dot from the time she came to the door until he was gone.
00:20:04.248 --> 00:20:07.068
Linda Hall: But it was very clear he wanted his mama.
00:20:07.068 --> 00:20:07.768
Linda Hall: He didn't want me.
00:20:07.788 --> 00:20:08.628
Linda Hall: He wanted his mama.
00:20:08.628 --> 00:20:10.048
Linda Hall: He was a young cat.
00:20:10.048 --> 00:20:11.128
Linda Hall: He was seven.
00:20:11.128 --> 00:20:16.528
Linda Hall: Yeah, I don't know what happened, but yeah, he's in the backyard next to Tiger.
00:20:16.588 --> 00:20:20.148
Linda Hall: So yeah, but it was very clear.
00:20:20.148 --> 00:20:23.148
Linda Hall: He loved me, but I was definitely grandma.
00:20:23.148 --> 00:20:26.028
Linda Hall: That was mom and he wanted his mom there.
00:20:26.028 --> 00:20:30.008
Linda Hall: And the minute he laid his head in her hand, he went.
00:20:30.008 --> 00:20:32.888
Linda Hall: And I feel like that was such a deliberate choice.
00:20:32.888 --> 00:20:34.108
Linda Hall: Like I need my mom.
00:20:34.108 --> 00:20:35.828
Linda Hall: Do you agree with that?
00:20:36.648 --> 00:20:39.688
Dr. Jeff Feinman: That very, very, very frequently occurs.
00:20:40.088 --> 00:20:46.508
Dr. Jeff Feinman: I'm thinking again of Darwin's story, which is he had been through a lot.
00:20:46.508 --> 00:20:50.108
Dr. Jeff Feinman: Actually, the guardian was a veterinarian.
00:20:50.128 --> 00:20:54.808
Dr. Jeff Feinman: And I mean, you can see the pictures of Darwin.
00:20:54.808 --> 00:20:57.988
Dr. Jeff Feinman: He was passing just like Tiger did.
00:20:58.128 --> 00:21:03.868
Dr. Jeff Feinman: He's reaching and wanting to put his hands on your hand and just love them.
00:21:03.868 --> 00:21:04.528
Linda Hall: Love me out.
00:21:04.528 --> 00:21:06.068
Linda Hall: And we owe them that.
00:21:06.068 --> 00:21:07.368
Linda Hall: We do have one.
00:21:07.508 --> 00:21:15.328
Linda Hall: I respect everybody's decision to make their decision, but we do have one veterinarian in town that will not allow you in the room for euthanasia.
00:21:16.428 --> 00:21:19.068
Linda Hall: It started with COVID, and they never went back.
00:21:19.068 --> 00:21:22.808
Linda Hall: And I, over my dead body, I will not do that.
00:21:22.808 --> 00:21:24.508
Linda Hall: You don't take that choice from me, right?
00:21:26.108 --> 00:21:27.908
Rita Reimers: Is that the same one that put Boo Boo in the back?
00:21:28.048 --> 00:21:30.428
Linda Hall: Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, when he had FIV.
00:21:30.448 --> 00:21:32.628
Rita Reimers: Do you want to talk about that or?
00:21:32.628 --> 00:21:35.328
Linda Hall: Yeah, yeah, it was, I had a cat years ago.
00:21:35.328 --> 00:21:36.888
Linda Hall: They didn't understand FIV as much.
00:21:36.888 --> 00:21:41.028
Linda Hall: And I, he was a backyard kitty, and I took him to get neutered.
00:21:41.028 --> 00:21:44.528
Linda Hall: And they called me and said he had FIV, and he needed to be euthanized.
00:21:44.528 --> 00:21:49.088
Linda Hall: And I went to pick him up, and they had him in a black trash bag.
00:21:49.088 --> 00:21:51.608
Rita Reimers: Yeah, they euthanized him without her there.
00:21:51.608 --> 00:21:52.788
Linda Hall: Inside a box.
00:21:52.788 --> 00:21:56.648
Linda Hall: And I got out to the car and I opened it because I needed to have a moment with him.
00:21:56.768 --> 00:22:03.088
Linda Hall: And I lost it like a crazy person, and was ripping at the bag, and yelling in the parking lot.
00:22:03.088 --> 00:22:04.008
Rita Reimers: We avoid that vet office.
00:22:04.008 --> 00:22:05.528
Linda Hall: That is not trash.
00:22:05.528 --> 00:22:07.608
Linda Hall: And yeah, it was not my finest moment.
00:22:07.608 --> 00:22:17.068
Linda Hall: But yeah, I think that point would be then that you need to seek out the vet that works with you in your ways, right?
00:22:17.068 --> 00:22:18.528
Dr. Jeff Feinman: Yeah, very, very much.
00:22:18.948 --> 00:22:32.108
Dr. Jeff Feinman: And there unfortunately still is a big gap between some individuals, whether it's a vet or a doctor, or that and the way our mindsets are all evolving.
00:22:32.108 --> 00:22:36.788
Dr. Jeff Feinman: Really, we're all just awakening to the reality of life.
00:22:36.788 --> 00:22:39.608
Dr. Jeff Feinman: And life is continuum.
00:22:39.608 --> 00:22:42.148
Dr. Jeff Feinman: Death is not the opposite of life.
00:22:42.148 --> 00:22:42.748
Dr. Jeff Feinman: That's true.
00:22:45.188 --> 00:22:51.208
Dr. Jeff Feinman: Earth is the beginning of the continuum and the end of life is the end of the continuum.
00:22:51.208 --> 00:23:01.428
Dr. Jeff Feinman: But nature and every indigenous culture in the world has done that for thousands of years, but we don't respect that.
00:23:01.428 --> 00:23:02.488
Linda Hall: Exactly.
00:23:02.488 --> 00:23:03.468
Linda Hall: Exactly.
00:23:03.668 --> 00:23:10.028
Linda Hall: I think that there's a line, Rita and I have always said we are not against medication per se.
00:23:10.028 --> 00:23:11.688
Linda Hall: But I think there has to be a blending.
00:23:12.008 --> 00:23:16.028
Linda Hall: I don't think every anxious cat does not need a Prozac.
00:23:17.368 --> 00:23:19.148
Linda Hall: We get that a lot.
00:23:19.148 --> 00:23:24.668
Linda Hall: There are other ways to approach it and things we can do that are preferable until we need.
00:23:24.668 --> 00:23:28.048
Linda Hall: If the cat needs and has a neurological problem, by all means.
00:23:28.048 --> 00:23:31.388
Linda Hall: But let's try looking at some natural things first.
00:23:31.388 --> 00:23:37.868
Dr. Jeff Feinman: I agree with looking at the natural physical things, which is I think what you're talking about.
00:23:37.948 --> 00:23:40.028
Dr. Jeff Feinman: I also can't stop myself.
00:23:40.028 --> 00:23:48.528
Dr. Jeff Feinman: But I really, really strongly feel that you need to also look at the energetic things before you go for the drugs.
00:23:48.528 --> 00:23:56.948
Dr. Jeff Feinman: Because those energetic things can go way beyond physical stuff and the energetic.
00:23:56.988 --> 00:24:01.148
Dr. Jeff Feinman: And it's going to be homeopathy and reiki and acupuncture.
00:24:01.148 --> 00:24:07.448
Dr. Jeff Feinman: Whole things that deal with the primary cause for every symptom.
00:24:07.448 --> 00:24:08.068
Dr. Jeff Feinman: We know that.
00:24:08.068 --> 00:24:14.508
Dr. Jeff Feinman: We know that symptoms are a manifestation of an energy imbalance in the body.
00:24:14.508 --> 00:24:17.508
Dr. Jeff Feinman: You know how to modify that imbalance.
00:24:17.508 --> 00:24:19.868
Dr. Jeff Feinman: So why not?
00:24:20.168 --> 00:24:23.588
Dr. Jeff Feinman: The only the answer to that, I think is why not?
00:24:23.588 --> 00:24:27.408
Dr. Jeff Feinman: Because we go to the vet or the doctor, and I said, no, that doesn't make sense.
00:24:27.408 --> 00:24:29.928
Dr. Jeff Feinman: We never were in that vet school.
00:24:29.928 --> 00:24:31.368
Linda Hall: Exactly.
00:24:31.368 --> 00:24:33.448
Linda Hall: Absolutely.
00:24:33.448 --> 00:24:38.208
Linda Hall: And your website, where am I?
00:24:38.208 --> 00:24:43.808
Linda Hall: Has all of this great stuff, not just for the animals, but for the people.
00:24:43.808 --> 00:24:45.708
Linda Hall: I loved the 50 ha thing.
00:24:45.708 --> 00:24:46.808
Linda Hall: I actually did that today.
00:24:49.268 --> 00:24:50.348
Linda Hall: Look at me, she laughed.
00:24:50.348 --> 00:24:58.568
Linda Hall: There's so many things to, I love the word integrative because yes, our animals respond to our energy, we respond to our animals' energy.
00:24:58.568 --> 00:25:00.348
Linda Hall: This is all one thing.
00:25:00.348 --> 00:25:05.368
Linda Hall: I think you're the first person that I ever went to their website and saw as much people stuff as I did animal stuff.
00:25:05.368 --> 00:25:06.288
Linda Hall: That was really cool.
00:25:06.288 --> 00:25:07.908
Rita Reimers: What's the website, Linda?
00:25:07.908 --> 00:25:08.208
Dr. Jeff Feinman: Yeah.
00:25:08.488 --> 00:25:11.388
Dr. Jeff Feinman: You're referring to Holistic Actions?
00:25:11.448 --> 00:25:11.848
Linda Hall: Yes.
00:25:11.848 --> 00:25:18.788
Dr. Jeff Feinman: That's actually the membership site where we teach everyone around the world this approach.
00:25:18.788 --> 00:25:23.228
Dr. Jeff Feinman: My professional site is mainly Gusselin Dogs and Cats.
00:25:23.228 --> 00:25:35.288
Dr. Jeff Feinman: But yeah, thank you for mentioning Holistic Actions because that is where we can go and that is where my focus is as far as getting this.
00:25:35.308 --> 00:25:40.248
Dr. Jeff Feinman: Now, I don't even want to say it's a paradigm change, it's a little bit of a shift.
00:25:40.708 --> 00:25:44.228
Dr. Jeff Feinman: We're not calling it from one to the other, we're integrating both.
00:25:44.228 --> 00:25:47.328
Linda Hall: Rita was as tragic as her mother's loss was.
00:25:47.328 --> 00:25:52.668
Linda Hall: She said she really noticed certain cats were laying with her comforting heart.
00:25:52.668 --> 00:25:55.928
Linda Hall: And her adrenaline and her blood pressure must have been off the chart one night.
00:25:55.928 --> 00:25:59.288
Linda Hall: She's had a very bad, understandably emotional reaction.
00:25:59.288 --> 00:26:01.548
Linda Hall: And she began to have chest pains.
00:26:01.548 --> 00:26:04.588
Linda Hall: And a couple of her males came to her that hadn't been.
00:26:04.588 --> 00:26:06.448
Rita Reimers: Simba and Simon.
00:26:06.448 --> 00:26:11.468
Linda Hall: Simba and Simon and laid on her chest and the pain started to subside.
00:26:11.468 --> 00:26:15.748
Linda Hall: It is such a connection, such an integral thing.
00:26:15.748 --> 00:26:18.788
Linda Hall: And experiencing it was mind-blowing.
00:26:18.788 --> 00:26:38.048
Dr. Jeff Feinman: And you brought up a really, really important point because what happened there, what can explain scientifically is the shift from a sympathetic, like tensed up, feel just pain state to the parasympathetic, rest, relax, and wistrous state.
00:26:38.068 --> 00:26:41.108
Dr. Jeff Feinman: There's nothing better for that than a cat.
00:26:41.108 --> 00:26:45.028
Dr. Jeff Feinman: Bring your cat on your chest or think of even.
00:26:45.028 --> 00:26:48.588
Dr. Jeff Feinman: But we can also do that volitionally just with our breath.
00:26:48.588 --> 00:26:48.948
Dr. Jeff Feinman: Thank you.
00:26:48.948 --> 00:26:50.428
Rita Reimers: Let's do it with our breath.
00:26:50.428 --> 00:26:51.808
Rita Reimers: Linda had a cat named Latte.
00:26:51.808 --> 00:26:53.128
Rita Reimers: They all called nurse Latte.
00:26:53.128 --> 00:26:55.968
Rita Reimers: Because when anyone was sick, she wouldn't leave their side.
00:26:56.508 --> 00:27:01.908
Linda Hall: Yes, the kids got a really bad flu one year, and she was on the couch and would not.
00:27:01.908 --> 00:27:03.288
Linda Hall: We were like, you need to eat.
00:27:03.288 --> 00:27:04.928
Linda Hall: Have you been to the litter box?
00:27:04.928 --> 00:27:06.768
Linda Hall: But she was just everybody's nurse.
00:27:06.768 --> 00:27:08.368
Linda Hall: She had to be there to take care of you.
00:27:08.368 --> 00:27:14.648
Linda Hall: We've had a few like that, that have been really crazy obvious in their attempts to assist us.
00:27:14.648 --> 00:27:14.888
Dr. Jeff Feinman: Yeah.
00:27:15.548 --> 00:27:19.988
Dr. Jeff Feinman: Well, they're all individuals, and they can definitely just like we are.
00:27:19.988 --> 00:27:25.428
Dr. Jeff Feinman: Some of them and some of us are really caretakers for others.
00:27:25.548 --> 00:27:34.708
Dr. Jeff Feinman: And they're all here for a reason, you know, they may bring us to this path that we're on, that we're talking about.
00:27:34.708 --> 00:27:40.348
Dr. Jeff Feinman: It may just be to comfort you when they're passing or when you're passing.
00:27:40.828 --> 00:27:41.728
Linda Hall: Exactly.
00:27:41.728 --> 00:27:42.088
Linda Hall: Yeah.
00:27:42.088 --> 00:27:43.508
Rita Reimers: What is the website we're talking about?
00:27:43.508 --> 00:27:46.068
Rita Reimers: Was that your homevet.com website?
00:27:46.068 --> 00:27:49.608
Dr. Jeff Feinman: No, I think that was the Holistic Actions website.
00:27:49.608 --> 00:27:51.888
Rita Reimers: That was holisticactions.com.
00:27:52.308 --> 00:27:55.488
Linda Hall: But homevet.com also has a lot of really great information.
00:27:55.488 --> 00:27:59.488
Linda Hall: I mean, you are out there sharing and it's amazing.
00:27:59.488 --> 00:28:06.228
Linda Hall: So what would you, so let's say back to end of life, let's say you've got an animal, cat, dog, gerbil, I don't care.
00:28:06.228 --> 00:28:08.348
Linda Hall: You're looking at this beam scale.
00:28:08.348 --> 00:28:14.368
Linda Hall: Tell me how you would walk through and make this decision as to whether or not you need to help this animal move on.
00:28:14.628 --> 00:28:16.908
Dr. Jeff Feinman: That's a really important question.
00:28:18.328 --> 00:28:26.328
Dr. Jeff Feinman: I think it starts by quantitating, by looking at your animal's last six months.
00:28:26.328 --> 00:28:28.088
Dr. Jeff Feinman: What's the past six months been?
00:28:28.088 --> 00:28:32.128
Dr. Jeff Feinman: I mean, I hear so often, oh, he was fine last week.
00:28:32.128 --> 00:28:41.608
Dr. Jeff Feinman: Now they're thinking about you, it's not as easy as like, well, that's a lot different than, he's been slowly declining for the past six months.
00:28:41.608 --> 00:28:52.808
Dr. Jeff Feinman: So I think the answer is looking at that beam score, or looking at the changes in that beam score, keeping that beam score at eight or above.
00:28:52.808 --> 00:29:00.948
Dr. Jeff Feinman: When it drops, then yeah, then maybe we need to start thinking about things to improve it, first of all.
00:29:00.948 --> 00:29:09.128
Dr. Jeff Feinman: So are definitely nature-inspired actions that will work when we think there's nothing else that we can do.
00:29:09.128 --> 00:29:13.408
Dr. Jeff Feinman: Sometimes just going out for a sniff walk is all that a dog needs to do.
00:29:13.588 --> 00:29:21.128
Dr. Jeff Feinman: Sometimes a cat playing with a want toy is all they need, or going out in the patio or whatnot.
00:29:21.128 --> 00:29:29.388
Dr. Jeff Feinman: But yeah, conventionally, we look at more good days and bad days, or good times and bad days.
00:29:29.388 --> 00:29:30.108
Dr. Jeff Feinman: Exactly.
00:29:30.108 --> 00:29:33.968
Rita Reimers: When the bad start stacking up, that's when we have to think about it.
00:29:33.968 --> 00:29:36.048
Linda Hall: Yeah, more bad than good.
00:29:36.048 --> 00:29:42.488
Dr. Jeff Feinman: When you're not able to energetically leave any perceived discomfort.
00:29:42.488 --> 00:29:50.868
Dr. Jeff Feinman: Because sometimes, you know, restless kitty may, you know, we may think they're uncomfortable and their child's restless.
00:29:50.868 --> 00:29:52.028
Linda Hall: True, exactly.
00:29:52.028 --> 00:29:54.808
Linda Hall: Or people will say, you know, my cat's playing with us.
00:29:54.808 --> 00:29:56.148
Linda Hall: Well, what else is going on?
00:29:56.148 --> 00:29:56.548
Linda Hall: Right.
00:29:56.548 --> 00:30:06.508
Linda Hall: Or, you know, maybe this is we, when we first started thinking that Tiger, we were going to lose Tiger's about 18 and his beam score was definitely on the down low.
00:30:06.508 --> 00:30:09.288
Linda Hall: And then it's like, OK, surprise from arthritis.
00:30:09.428 --> 00:30:16.528
Linda Hall: That's when we started on the PA and he was a different cat, not a kitten, but a good, healthy adult cat.
00:30:16.528 --> 00:30:21.648
Linda Hall: And people that saw pictures said, I would never have guessed that cat was 21.
00:30:21.748 --> 00:30:23.448
Linda Hall: He's not supposed to look raggedy.
00:30:23.448 --> 00:30:25.348
Rita Reimers: Right.
00:30:25.348 --> 00:30:29.868
Dr. Jeff Feinman: That that's a really great point because you have to put it into context.
00:30:29.868 --> 00:30:41.608
Dr. Jeff Feinman: I know Tiger 18, you know, that was somebody looking at him out of context wouldn't know that, you know, for a few months ago he was thinking maybe it's time for him to...
00:30:41.608 --> 00:30:42.188
Linda Hall: Yeah.
00:30:42.188 --> 00:30:42.548
Linda Hall: Yeah.
00:30:42.548 --> 00:30:43.488
Linda Hall: He's getting close.
00:30:43.488 --> 00:30:44.348
Linda Hall: Keep an eye on him.
00:30:44.348 --> 00:30:45.428
Linda Hall: Enjoy what you got.
00:30:45.428 --> 00:30:46.388
Linda Hall: And yes.
00:30:46.388 --> 00:30:51.168
Dr. Jeff Feinman: But you as the guardian, who knew him better than anyone else?
00:30:51.188 --> 00:30:55.248
Dr. Jeff Feinman: And you're going to know by monitoring him.
00:30:55.248 --> 00:30:56.848
Linda Hall: He seemed to still want to be here.
00:30:56.848 --> 00:30:57.468
Linda Hall: Right.
00:30:57.468 --> 00:30:59.928
Linda Hall: And I think some of the things sneak up on you.
00:30:59.928 --> 00:31:03.448
Linda Hall: Like we'll talk to clients and we'll be like, have you noticed any changes?
00:31:03.448 --> 00:31:04.488
Linda Hall: No, no, no.
00:31:04.488 --> 00:31:08.468
Linda Hall: You know, oh, and then it's like, oh, you know, he hasn't gone upstairs in a long time.
00:31:08.468 --> 00:31:09.448
Rita Reimers: Yeah, as they're thinking.
00:31:09.468 --> 00:31:11.408
Linda Hall: Oh, yeah.
00:31:11.408 --> 00:31:14.228
Linda Hall: Oh, he used to always hang out on the top rung of the cat tree.
00:31:14.228 --> 00:31:18.628
Linda Hall: And now he hangs out on the floor in that bed or on the sofa, you know.
00:31:18.628 --> 00:31:22.648
Linda Hall: Oh, well, maybe he's having a harder time getting up the stairs or jumping on the cat tree.
00:31:22.648 --> 00:31:22.908
Linda Hall: Right.
00:31:22.908 --> 00:31:24.968
Linda Hall: We got to look at all these indicators.
00:31:24.968 --> 00:31:27.908
Linda Hall: And it's understandable that it happened so slow that we don't notice it.
00:31:27.988 --> 00:31:28.428
Linda Hall: Right.
00:31:28.428 --> 00:31:48.348
Dr. Jeff Feinman: And that's why keeping an journal with the beam score every day is so important because all those subtle things that we may not notice in the day, we're going to notice the trend and things like not getting up on the table or being a little bit slower to eat or a little bit pure.
00:31:48.348 --> 00:31:52.888
Dr. Jeff Feinman: Then all those things subtly lower the beam score and they sneak up on us.
00:31:52.888 --> 00:31:53.988
Linda Hall: We don't see them.
00:31:53.988 --> 00:31:54.588
Rita Reimers: Definitely.
00:31:55.848 --> 00:31:58.328
Rita Reimers: Any last words of wisdom for us, Dr.
00:31:58.328 --> 00:32:01.328
Rita Reimers: Jeff, on making that horrible decision or not?
00:32:01.328 --> 00:32:02.468
Dr. Jeff Feinman: Just one.
00:32:02.468 --> 00:32:04.408
Dr. Jeff Feinman: And that one word is love.
00:32:04.408 --> 00:32:22.728
Dr. Jeff Feinman: Because love really is the power, the most sustainable power, the power that's going to hold the life in their bodies, you know, if they're alive, but also allow you to make the right intuitive decision, not what everyone around you is saying, but what your love is telling you to do.
00:32:23.188 --> 00:32:24.208
Linda Hall: Exactly.
00:32:24.288 --> 00:32:25.708
Linda Hall: That's perfect.
00:32:25.708 --> 00:32:26.708
Rita Reimers: Thank you so much.
00:32:26.708 --> 00:32:28.528
Rita Reimers: We so appreciate you coming back again.
00:32:28.528 --> 00:32:30.088
Rita Reimers: Let me put us back on Gallery View.
00:32:30.088 --> 00:32:32.508
Rita Reimers: There we are to talk about this topic.
00:32:32.508 --> 00:32:34.288
Rita Reimers: It's hard for people to think about, right?
00:32:34.288 --> 00:32:41.208
Rita Reimers: You know, having to make that decision, but it's an inevitable part of having a pet in our lives.
00:32:41.208 --> 00:32:41.588
Dr. Jeff Feinman: Yeah.
00:32:41.588 --> 00:32:42.588
Dr. Jeff Feinman: Yes, darling.
00:32:42.608 --> 00:32:53.588
Dr. Jeff Feinman: My answer to every medical question is always it depends, but this one question that I can answer unequivocally and that is that if you're alive, you're going to die.
00:32:53.588 --> 00:32:55.328
Linda Hall: This is true.
00:32:55.328 --> 00:32:56.808
Linda Hall: Absolutely.
00:32:56.808 --> 00:32:58.148
Rita Reimers: Oh, I remember my sweetie pie.
00:32:58.148 --> 00:33:00.368
Rita Reimers: Everybody said, how is that cat still alive?
00:33:00.368 --> 00:33:05.448
Rita Reimers: She had horrible ventral septal defect and it wasn't treatable.
00:33:05.448 --> 00:33:06.868
Rita Reimers: They told me she was going to live it.
00:33:06.868 --> 00:33:08.448
Rita Reimers: She was going to die around six months.
00:33:08.448 --> 00:33:12.188
Rita Reimers: She lived seven and a half years and every vet that saw her said it has to be love.
00:33:12.748 --> 00:33:15.288
Rita Reimers: So your point is well taken, Dr.
00:33:15.288 --> 00:33:15.648
Rita Reimers: Jeff.
00:33:15.648 --> 00:33:20.008
Linda Hall: She just loved that baby too well, but that baby wasn't ready to go.
00:33:20.008 --> 00:33:22.988
Linda Hall: I will to live plays a part in every living being.
00:33:22.988 --> 00:33:24.268
Dr. Jeff Feinman: It sure does.
00:33:24.268 --> 00:33:46.668
Dr. Jeff Feinman: Last night I was studying the effect on mortality of retirement in people because we've focused a lot on the purpose, sense purpose, giving a cat a sense purpose, whether it's eating or purring or being your cat taker, and that love and that sense purpose really elevates the means like your cat will live for years.
00:33:46.748 --> 00:33:48.368
Dr. Jeff Feinman: That's on the power.
00:33:48.368 --> 00:33:49.808
Rita Reimers: I so agree with that.
00:33:49.808 --> 00:33:51.728
Rita Reimers: Thank you so much for being here.
00:33:51.728 --> 00:33:56.988
Rita Reimers: And Linda, thank you so much, especially over the last couple of weeks, being my ride or die.
00:33:56.988 --> 00:33:57.568
Linda Hall: You got me.
00:33:57.568 --> 00:33:59.528
Linda Hall: You're stuck with me.
00:33:59.528 --> 00:34:00.528
Rita Reimers: Well, now you're my mom.
00:34:01.208 --> 00:34:01.608
Linda Hall: Right.
00:34:01.628 --> 00:34:03.268
Linda Hall: Exactly.
00:34:03.268 --> 00:34:10.048
Rita Reimers: And of course, Mark Winter, we have to thank you for giving this an awesome spot on Pet Life Radio that we so appreciate.
00:34:10.048 --> 00:34:11.788
Rita Reimers: And a big shout out to our sponsors too.
00:34:11.788 --> 00:34:13.048
Rita Reimers: We love all of you.
00:34:13.108 --> 00:34:13.888
Linda Hall: Thank you, Dr.
00:34:13.888 --> 00:34:14.468
Linda Hall: Jeff.
00:34:14.468 --> 00:34:15.148
Rita Reimers: Thank you, Dr.
00:34:15.148 --> 00:34:15.528
Rita Reimers: Jeff.
00:34:15.528 --> 00:34:16.568
Dr. Jeff Feinman: You're welcome.
00:34:16.568 --> 00:34:18.588
Dr. Jeff Feinman: Thanks so much for having me again.
00:34:18.588 --> 00:34:19.268
Linda Hall: Always.
00:34:19.268 --> 00:34:19.848
Linda Hall: Anytime.
00:34:19.968 --> 00:34:20.968
Linda Hall: Open door.
00:34:20.968 --> 00:34:22.208
Linda Hall: Open door, pop up.
00:34:22.208 --> 00:34:22.708
Rita Reimers: Anytime.
00:34:22.708 --> 00:34:24.508
Rita Reimers: You can come back every week if you want to.
00:34:24.508 --> 00:34:25.068
Linda Hall: Yeah.
00:34:25.068 --> 00:34:25.768
Linda Hall: We'll take you.
00:34:25.788 --> 00:34:26.988
Dr. Jeff Feinman: I'll see you next week.
00:34:26.988 --> 00:34:28.168
Linda Hall: We'll take you.
00:34:28.468 --> 00:34:29.148
Dr. Jeff Feinman: Right.
00:34:29.148 --> 00:34:33.748
Rita Reimers: Don't forget, everyone, that every single day is Caturday.
00:34:33.748 --> 00:34:35.088
Linda Hall: Let's Talk Pets.
00:34:35.088 --> 00:34:37.108
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