19 Cats And Counting

BIO:

Dr. Andy Roark is a practicing veterinarian, international speaker, author, and media personality. He is the founder of the Uncharted Veterinary Conference and DrAndyRoark.com. He has been an award-winning columnist for DVM360 and his popular Facebook page, website, podcast, and YouTube show reach millions of people every month. Dr. Roark has received the NAVC Practice Management Speaker of the Year Award three times, the WVC Practice Management Educator of the Year Award, the Outstanding Young Alumni Award from the University of Florida’s College of Veterinary Medicine, and the Veterinarian of the Year Award from the South Carolina Association of Veterinarians. His greatest achievement however involves marrying a bad-ass scientist and raising 2 kind and wonderful daughters.

Transcript:

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Announcer: This is Pet Life Radio.

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Linda Hall: Hello, my cat-loving friends.

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Linda Hall: We've got a treasure today.

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Linda Hall: Rita and I have been obsessed with Dr.

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Linda Hall: Andy Roark.

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Linda Hall: If you do not follow him on social media, you are missing out.

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Linda Hall: There is a lot of education, and the occasional really bad dad joke, which we're hoping he'll at least leave us with one today.

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Linda Hall: But you know, entertainment and education go hand in hand.

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Linda Hall: He's a veterinarian and international speaker.

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Linda Hall: He's an author and a media personality.

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Linda Hall: He does all the stuff, and we are so excited.

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Linda Hall: We'll be back right after this word from our sponsor.

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Announcer: Let's Talk Pets on petliferadio.com.

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Linda Hall: I am your co-host, Linda Hall, here with the ever-gorgeous blonde bombshell, my BFF, Rita Reimers.

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Rita Reimers: I always know she's buttering me up for something.

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Linda Hall: I don't know what it is yet, but she'll catch it.

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Linda Hall: I'm stacking them in account for when I need them.

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Linda Hall: But I don't even want to talk to you, I've been looking forward to talking to you.

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Linda Hall: Hi, Dr.

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Linda Hall: Andy, welcome aboard.

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Rita Reimers: Can we call you Dr.

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Rita Reimers: Andy or Dr.

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Rita Reimers: Roark?

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Andy Roark: Just call me Andy.

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Linda Hall: Okay, Andy it is.

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Linda Hall: You worked really hard for that doctor.

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Linda Hall: It's a shame when people don't use it.

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Andy Roark: Well, I did, but I tell you what, the thing that makes me the happiest in this job is connecting with people and making people feel like they can talk to you.

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Andy Roark: And just think that's so important.

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Andy Roark: And honestly, you're right.

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Andy Roark: If we're not in the exam room, I think that doctor word is kind of a, just sort of a barrier, but I just love talking to you guys.

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Andy Roark: And please just call me Andy.

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Linda Hall: Yay, all right, you got it.

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Rita Reimers: Oh, one of the same, we can talk about cats forever and ever.

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Rita Reimers: We love dogs too, but we are just both more cat-centric than dog-centric.

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Rita Reimers: I grew up with a dog, Linda did too.

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Linda Hall: Yeah, I did too.

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Linda Hall: I had one until last August, but cats are just, they're just my connection.

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Linda Hall: They're my jam, they're my special thing.

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Linda Hall: So we have a bunch of questions for you, but I want to start with something that really hit me.

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Linda Hall: We recently lost someone in the cat rescue field who took her own life.

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Linda Hall: And I did the research and cried because I found out that people in the animal care industry, including veterinarians have the highest suicide rate equal only to firefighters and policemen.

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Linda Hall: It's awful.

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Linda Hall: And I don't remember, it acts out of so many vets have considered.

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Linda Hall: I mean, it was awful to read.

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Linda Hall: Oh, it's heartbreaking.

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Linda Hall: So I know that you sat at drandyroark.com, which it's roar like a lion, like a lion, like a lion, R-O-A-R with an A on the end.

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Linda Hall: drandyroeck.com.

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Rita Reimers: Linda, I know it's Friday, but get out.

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Linda Hall: It's Friday and I can't talk.

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Linda Hall: And you had said something about wanting to know, wanting people to really connect and know what the other side of vet life is like.

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Linda Hall: And I assume that stress is part of it.

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Linda Hall: So give us a little bit about that.

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Linda Hall: I know it's a lot.

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Andy Roark: Oh, sure.

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Andy Roark: Yeah, that's a big.

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Rita Reimers: That's a heavy question to start with.

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Linda Hall: Yeah, it is.

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Andy Roark: That's a big cat toy to knock around.

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Andy Roark: All right, you know, vet medicine is a weird mixture of medicine and customer service and advocacy.

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Andy Roark: And so it's the medicine part, it's fixing the problems and the customer service part is dealing with the human who brings the cat carrier in, who's ultimately going to make the decisions.

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Andy Roark: And you have to be a good communicator and you have to build trust with that person and help them to understand what we're, because you can be the smartest clinician in the world, but if you can't explain that and the pet owner doesn't get it, they're not going to be able to go along with you and support you and make sure the pet gets the care that you need.

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Rita Reimers: That's true.

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Rita Reimers: I've had some great vets, but I also had one I had a knockdown drag out fight with because he screamed at me about putting down my cat or not.

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Rita Reimers: And I never went back to that office again.

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Rita Reimers: And I know he's a good vet, but if you don't have that rapport with someone.

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Andy Roark: Yeah, it's the relationship.

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Andy Roark: So it's the clinician part, it's the customer service part, and it's the advocacy part, because we speak for the voiceless.

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Andy Roark: And again, you have to balance that with the customer service part and the relationship part of this person is coming to you for a service, they want you to do this for them, and they're maybe budget conscious or whatever.

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Andy Roark: But you also want to advocate for that pet and say, hey, skills would really benefit from this.

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Andy Roark: And so you really have to try to balance all those things.

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Andy Roark: It can be challenging, it can be hard.

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Andy Roark: I mean, from your work with cat rescues and things, it can feel like a ceaseless task.

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Andy Roark: There's just a never ending stream of pets coming in and they're sick or they're struggling or their pet owners are sick or struggling and things like that.

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Andy Roark: It'd be a hard job.

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Andy Roark: And with the customer service part, we know how hard life has gotten for wait staff at restaurants and how mean people can sort of be.

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Andy Roark: And I hate that.

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Andy Roark: So I think as a society, we're seeing more of this kind of meanness and I think that's really challenging for people who have big hearts.

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Rita Reimers: I see people really abusing the staff at the veterinarian's office too, the people at the desk.

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Rita Reimers: You know, they're waiting too long, or they're sick of sitting or whatever, or they're complaining about their bill.

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Rita Reimers: You don't have to treat them like CRAP, you know?

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Rita Reimers: The next time you come in, you really think the person's gonna treat you or give you any kind of side benefits or anything when you treat them like way.

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Andy Roark: It's a balance, you know, because you're right.

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Andy Roark: Sometimes you say, you know, I shouldn't have to tolerate this.

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Andy Roark: Or you know, there are some people, and there are some people who come in and don't have any reason to be mean, but they are.

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Andy Roark: But you know, it's funny, what you run into a lot with vet medicine is this.

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Andy Roark: And so, you know, when we have cats that we engage with, whether we're bringing them to the vet clinic or we're going into their home or whatever, and we get hissing or we get, you know, snarling, you know, snarling, that's fear, you know?

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Andy Roark: It's not meanness, it's fear.

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Andy Roark: And people say, oh, she's just, she's such a mean cat.

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Andy Roark: She's not a mean cat.

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Andy Roark: She's a freak.

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Andy Roark: And you know, I really try to remember that myself as a doctor, when we work with other doctors in sort of in doctor communication training and things, that's such a valuable thing to remember because human beings are the same way.

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Andy Roark: A lot of times there's people who are very angry, are very afraid, or they feel great frustration at the unfairness of life.

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Andy Roark: You know, when we have people and they come in, and I've got too many stories to list, but you know, we'll have someone, and they will found out horrible medical news about the cat that they love, and they get mad.

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Andy Roark: And it's just, I know they're not mad at me.

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Andy Roark: They're mad at the unfairness of life.

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Andy Roark: No one teaches you how to keep a perspective like that.

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Andy Roark: And it can be hard sometimes.

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Andy Roark: I think a lot of times we're a proxy for the unfairness of life and just, you know, the hardships that people carry.

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Linda Hall: And it's hard, and I don't think people appreciate that.

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Linda Hall: I mean, y'all are amazing at coming in and doing a euthanasia or something, and walking out the door and going in the next room.

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Linda Hall: And I'm thinking-

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Rita Reimers: I don't know how you do it.

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Rita Reimers: I unfortunately, with this many cats, I see my vet for a lot of euthanasia.

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Rita Reimers: Every time I'm like, I don't know how you do this.

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Andy Roark: So much of it is perspective.

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Andy Roark: You know, with euthanasia, I will tell you, I see euthanasia generally as a gift.

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Andy Roark: I really do believe that.

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Andy Roark: And that may also speak to part of the suicide rates in veterinary professionals.

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Andy Roark: But I believe that in these cases of these sick cats, and I'll see cats that come in with chronic renal failure, which is very common in older cats.

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Andy Roark: And they'll weigh five pounds, and they used to weigh 10 pounds, and they're skin and bones, and they're nauseous, and they're not eating.

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Andy Roark: And euthanasia is the kindest thing that I can do for them.

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Andy Roark: And so I really do think that that's important.

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Andy Roark: I think where a lot of that struggle is when they don't feel that's true, you know?

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Andy Roark: And those are particular hardships when we end up sort of in a new position and someone wants to put their cat to sleep, and you say, but this is a wonderful cat, what are we doing here?

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Andy Roark: And then you're going to have to decide how you're going to handle that, and if you're just going to send the person away, and sometimes we do.

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Andy Roark: All that stuff is challenging.

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Andy Roark: But it's funny, for me, it's not the euthanasias that are really hard because I have gotten to know people so well.

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Andy Roark: Like, Rita, when you take your cat in, and this is a senior cat, and you know that it's time, that's probably, you probably remember those veterinarians, I suspect.

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Andy Roark: And hopefully you sort of remember the compassion that you saw with them, because that's, you know, it's a time that, I think people can really connect, and it's a time, I will tell you, I get more thank you notes for euthanasia than anything else by far.

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Andy Roark: And it's just because people need you at that time.

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Andy Roark: You can find purpose in that.

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Andy Roark: You just, you have to, again, you have to have a good perspective, and you have to look at it the right way, but it really can be, I know that sounds maybe a bit odd, but you know, I have-

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Rita Reimers: I've had vets cry with me, and that means a lot when they get emotional, because I know that it's not just a routine thing that they do.

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Linda Hall: Exactly, yes, yes, yes.

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Linda Hall: And it is a gift.

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Linda Hall: You know, our last sanctuary cat that we had to put down, Missy, Norwegian Forest Cat.

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Linda Hall: So she should be like 12 pounds.

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Linda Hall: What was she, five pounds the last time she had-

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Linda Hall: It was time.

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Linda Hall: She was wasting away.

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Linda Hall: She was screaming for food, but she wouldn't eat.

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Linda Hall: I mean, it was not a good life for human or cat.

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Linda Hall: And so, yeah, it was the kindest thing we could have done, but that doesn't make it any easier on the humans.

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Andy Roark: Oh, yeah, you're exactly right.

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Andy Roark: You know, one of the changes that I've seen in vet medicine in about the last 10 years is the-

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Andy Roark: there's a lot of different kinds of veterinary practice than there used to be.

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Andy Roark: And it's really, I think the future is fragmentation.

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Andy Roark: I think you're going to see veterinarians working with cat owners in a variety of ways you haven't seen before.

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Andy Roark: But one of the fairly recent ones, I think I said the last 10 years, we've really seen the rise in hospice care veterinarians, which are veterinarians whose entire job is coming and they do end of life care.

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Andy Roark: They generate mobile, they come to people's homes, so you don't have to go to that clinic and stuff.

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Andy Roark: And again, that didn't exist more than about 10 years ago.

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Andy Roark: And when you think about it at first, you go, what a terrible job to just put pets to sleep and be there at the end of their life.

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Andy Roark: But I know so many of these veterans and they really love that job.

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Andy Roark: They feel like they're really helping, they're coming to the families in their homes and they find reward and purpose in this work.

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Rita Reimers: So I wish we had one here.

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Rita Reimers: I'm in a tiny little town.

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Linda Hall: Yeah, me too, I was a nurse's aide for hospice for many years.

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Linda Hall: And when I first started and I said, oh my gosh, this is what God always wanted me to do.

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Linda Hall: This is the best thing.

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Linda Hall: After a while, it got my emotions and I was done and it was like time to move on.

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Linda Hall: I wouldn't do that again if you paid me, but it was everything for a while there.

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Linda Hall: And yes, I was providing comfort for these people and I was helping their last days be better and I was allowing them to stay in their home.

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Linda Hall: That's a gift.

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Linda Hall: That was everything to me until I just had too many deaths and couldn't do it because I get attached, but.

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Rita Reimers: I don't know.

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Rita Reimers: Not to change the subject, but I just want to ask, do you find that more cats have issues going to the vet than dogs?

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Rita Reimers: I mean, dogs always, they kind of seem happy when they're waiting in the waiting room and the cats are all hunkered in their carriers.

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Andy Roark: I think you're exactly right.

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Andy Roark: Now, we've looked at this in the vet profession for years and years, and the truth is you're a regular small animal veterinarian.

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Andy Roark: And again, this is not everyone, but just broad spectrum.

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Andy Roark: I think the practices generally see something about seven to eight dogs, seven to eight dogs out of 10 patients.

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Andy Roark: And you say, but when you look at pet ownership, it's much more evenly split than that.

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Andy Roark: It's about 50-50 even, but we just see such a huge number of dogs.

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Andy Roark: And really one of the things that vet practices have struggled with is getting cats in for care for the exact reason that you mentioned.

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Andy Roark: Dogs are often, again, not all dogs, but dogs are often, they're excited to get in the car.

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Linda Hall: They're happy to be there.

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Andy Roark: Yeah, they come in and you give them some treats and they're like, yeah.

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Andy Roark: Really working effectively with cat owners is a challenge because, and we've all seen there's cats that they don't wanna go in the carrier.

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Andy Roark: They don't like, if they see you getting it out, they are gone.

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Andy Roark: And then, the other thing is working with cats, it takes different skills.

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Andy Roark: And one of the things you try to hammer into vet professionals is cats are not small dogs, cats are not small dogs, cats are not small dogs.

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Andy Roark: But you can get your goofy dog out there and they'll hop around, you just sort of grab them up and they're happy as a clam.

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Andy Roark: That's not how our feline patients are.

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Andy Roark: I think that they're, as much as I would like to say, well, you can just behave differently and they'll have an equal experience.

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Andy Roark: I just think cats are much more secretive, they're much more solitary, they're much less excited to be in a new place.

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Rita Reimers: Yeah, they hate that.

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Andy Roark: And again, there are things that we can do and the best way to approach this is a partnership between the cat owner and the veterinary team, to try to say, let's make this smooth.

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Andy Roark: Let's, for godness, for godness, for godness.

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Andy Roark: I started to say, she spelled C-R-A-P, so I was like.

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Andy Roark: For goodness sakes, the cat shouldn't be in the waiting room with a barking dog next to their carrot.

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Andy Roark: We gotta do better than that.

00:14:05.507 --> 00:14:16.547
Andy Roark: And understand, we're working, sometimes we have the space that we have and things like that, but really, it's on the veterinarians and the vet professionals, so we've gotta handle this, but we've gotta try to reduce the stress for our feline patients coming in.

00:14:16.747 --> 00:14:19.807
Andy Roark: We can do that with scheduling, we should be communicating.

00:14:19.827 --> 00:14:26.687
Andy Roark: I'm really getting big guys on anti-anxiety approaches to prepare cats to come into the vet clinic.

00:14:26.707 --> 00:14:40.527
Andy Roark: You know, with your interest in cat behavior and things, there's so many things that we can do to set the table for a good vet visit at home that just, it stops them from being so, I hate to say traumatized, but so nervous, so stressed.

00:14:40.547 --> 00:14:41.847
Rita Reimers: Oh, it is trauma.

00:14:41.967 --> 00:14:50.487
Rita Reimers: I had one vet and all the vets I've seen because I've moved all over the place in LA and he had a separate entrance and a separate waiting room for cats and dogs.

00:14:50.507 --> 00:14:51.527
Rita Reimers: And that was awesome.

00:14:51.847 --> 00:14:53.047
Andy Roark: Yeah, I love to see it.

00:14:53.067 --> 00:14:53.827
Andy Roark: I think you're seeing more of that.

00:14:53.967 --> 00:14:57.107
Andy Roark: You're seeing that some other practices at least divide the waiting room.

00:14:57.127 --> 00:15:00.287
Andy Roark: So the dogs are on this side down here, lots are over here.

00:15:00.307 --> 00:15:01.627
Andy Roark: If it's small, it's not perfect.

00:15:01.747 --> 00:15:06.267
Andy Roark: The separate interests is really, that's the gold standard.

00:15:06.287 --> 00:15:07.247
Andy Roark: That's really what you want.

00:15:07.467 --> 00:15:13.827
Andy Roark: Again, if you're in New York City, you're in Manhattan, you've got this tiny little space, it's hard to do things like that.

00:15:13.847 --> 00:15:14.967
Andy Roark: We have to be creative.

00:15:15.087 --> 00:15:19.387
Andy Roark: You can even do things like really focusing on taking cats directly.

00:15:19.407 --> 00:15:22.847
Andy Roark: And as soon as they arrive at the practice, they go straight through the waiting room.

00:15:23.547 --> 00:15:26.707
Andy Roark: Ideally, they go into the exam room where they can sort of acclimate.

00:15:26.727 --> 00:15:29.447
Andy Roark: They're gonna be in the room that they're gonna be seen in, things like that.

00:15:29.467 --> 00:15:32.467
Andy Roark: But it takes a little bit of, it just takes a little bit of planning.

00:15:32.687 --> 00:15:33.827
Linda Hall: Yes, exactly.

00:15:33.947 --> 00:15:39.087
Linda Hall: Nats, we have a lot of clients that if the cat is super, super spicy, they get a little gabapentin before they go.

00:15:40.067 --> 00:15:43.647
Linda Hall: My daughter's cat Tiger is 20 and he is crabby.

00:15:43.667 --> 00:15:44.867
Linda Hall: Oh my gosh, he's crabby.

00:15:45.287 --> 00:15:50.707
Linda Hall: And she took him, he had to get shots and he kept smacking the needle out of the poor vet tech's hands.

00:15:50.747 --> 00:15:52.707
Linda Hall: And they went through like two or three vet techs.

00:15:52.727 --> 00:15:58.947
Linda Hall: And then, you know, some old school vet tech who's been doing this a while, walked in the room and she did it all so fast.

00:15:58.967 --> 00:16:00.027
Linda Hall: None of us knew what was happening.

00:16:00.047 --> 00:16:00.787
Linda Hall: She went, yo, yo.

00:16:01.067 --> 00:16:03.787
Linda Hall: And it was like, oh, and she got him.

00:16:03.807 --> 00:16:05.927
Linda Hall: And everybody else was like, what just happened?

00:16:05.947 --> 00:16:09.467
Rita Reimers: Now, my favorite story about tigers when they were trying to move.

00:16:09.767 --> 00:16:16.027
Linda Hall: Yeah, my daughter was moving apartments and we had some nice big burly guys back at the old apartment moving stuff.

00:16:16.387 --> 00:16:20.587
Linda Hall: And we were unpacking in the new place and we got a phone call that said, we cannot move the bed.

00:16:20.607 --> 00:16:21.507
Linda Hall: The cat won't let us.

00:16:22.047 --> 00:16:26.167
Linda Hall: These guys were petrified of this orange cat.

00:16:26.307 --> 00:16:28.327
Linda Hall: It was, but I got it.

00:16:29.527 --> 00:16:33.767
Rita Reimers: Well, I honestly lost track because I've been so in front of what you've been saying, Dr.

00:16:33.787 --> 00:16:34.147
Rita Reimers: Andy.

00:16:34.747 --> 00:16:39.327
Rita Reimers: So, let's take a quick break and we'll be right back for more after our sponsor.

00:16:42.207 --> 00:16:43.927
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00:17:22.647 --> 00:17:24.487
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00:17:24.987 --> 00:17:27.087
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00:17:37.107 --> 00:17:39.227
Announcer: Pet Life radio.com.

00:17:49.053 --> 00:17:52.413
Rita Reimers: And we're back with 19 Cats and Counting and Dr.

00:17:52.453 --> 00:17:52.873
Rita Reimers: Andy.

00:17:52.893 --> 00:17:57.373
Rita Reimers: I just can't call you Andy, because like Linda said earlier, you worked so hard for that.

00:17:57.393 --> 00:18:00.153
Linda Hall: She's feeling disrespectful, exactly.

00:18:01.213 --> 00:18:14.573
Linda Hall: So what is the one thing that you wish above all, if I could tell every cat parent, or maybe pet parent, period, but again, cats can be so specific, this is the one thing that they just don't get that drives me crazy, or maybe there's more than one.

00:18:14.893 --> 00:18:15.833
Andy Roark: There's a couple.

00:18:15.913 --> 00:18:20.753
Andy Roark: I guess it all sort of comes back to, honestly, it's about stress management in our cats.

00:18:20.913 --> 00:18:21.733
Andy Roark: That's really what it is.

00:18:21.753 --> 00:18:22.473
Andy Roark: They're not spicy.

00:18:22.593 --> 00:18:23.973
Andy Roark: They're not spicy.

00:18:24.013 --> 00:18:25.053
Andy Roark: They're not mean.

00:18:25.173 --> 00:18:26.313
Andy Roark: They're not spiteful.

00:18:26.333 --> 00:18:27.093
Andy Roark: That was what I was going for.

00:18:27.133 --> 00:18:28.193
Andy Roark: They're not spiteful.

00:18:29.213 --> 00:18:31.913
Andy Roark: They're anxious creatures.

00:18:32.013 --> 00:18:35.173
Rita Reimers: Thank you for saying they're not spiteful, because a lot of people say they are.

00:18:35.193 --> 00:18:35.653
Rita Reimers: They're not.

00:18:35.893 --> 00:18:37.313
Andy Roark: Again, it goes back to fear.

00:18:37.333 --> 00:18:40.193
Andy Roark: It goes back to, honestly, it's generally environmental stress.

00:18:40.613 --> 00:18:45.753
Andy Roark: It's taking some time to do a little reading, get a little education on your environment.

00:18:46.153 --> 00:18:48.593
Andy Roark: And especially, especially multi-cat households.

00:18:48.873 --> 00:18:52.853
Andy Roark: There's just, these things seem maybe arbitrary to us, but they're not.

00:18:53.093 --> 00:18:55.813
Andy Roark: The number of litter, of litter trays.

00:18:55.973 --> 00:18:57.693
Andy Roark: And you say, but I always keep it clean.

00:18:57.713 --> 00:18:59.293
Andy Roark: And I say, I totally believe you.

00:18:59.313 --> 00:19:00.113
Andy Roark: And I totally understand.

00:19:00.453 --> 00:19:03.933
Andy Roark: Again, it's the interpersonal dynamics and associations.

00:19:03.953 --> 00:19:08.853
Andy Roark: But the big thing I would say is, especially now I'm thinking this through, and you pushed me for one thing.

00:19:08.873 --> 00:19:17.333
Andy Roark: The one thing I would say is, if your cat starts to urinate inappropriately, don't sit around and wait on that.

00:19:17.533 --> 00:19:22.033
Andy Roark: Because that's the number one thing, honestly, that's the number one reason that cats have been in shelters, is inappropriate urination.

00:19:22.493 --> 00:19:26.393
Andy Roark: And once these behaviors sort of become established, they're much harder to fix.

00:19:26.413 --> 00:19:30.773
Andy Roark: And if you just said something up front and said, hey, I'm just gonna call the vet real quick.

00:19:30.953 --> 00:19:32.213
Andy Roark: Please call me.

00:19:32.253 --> 00:19:33.513
Andy Roark: Please let me know about that.

00:19:33.533 --> 00:19:38.273
Andy Roark: Because oftentimes, when we start to see inappropriate urination, there's something going on.

00:19:38.453 --> 00:19:39.613
Andy Roark: It is a stress component.

00:19:39.653 --> 00:19:41.433
Andy Roark: It is about interactions with the other cats.

00:19:41.433 --> 00:19:43.193
Andy Roark: It's about where the litter boxes are placed.

00:19:43.193 --> 00:19:44.893
Andy Roark: It's about how we're doing food.

00:19:45.013 --> 00:19:47.213
Rita Reimers: That's about outdoor cats hanging around.

00:19:48.213 --> 00:19:49.213
Andy Roark: It's a great example.

00:19:49.653 --> 00:19:52.173
Andy Roark: Outdoor cats are taunting us through the window.

00:19:52.273 --> 00:19:53.653
Andy Roark: But it could be any of those things.

00:19:53.673 --> 00:19:55.353
Andy Roark: But it's not spite.

00:19:55.673 --> 00:19:56.793
Andy Roark: It's not meanness.

00:19:57.093 --> 00:19:59.033
Andy Roark: It's not revenge for other things.

00:19:59.473 --> 00:20:07.173
Andy Roark: But a lot of times, if we can just intervene early before these things become patterns, we can really make a big difference.

00:20:07.193 --> 00:20:08.973
Andy Roark: And it doesn't have to be a huge ordeal.

00:20:09.293 --> 00:20:10.893
Andy Roark: We just have to take action and not...

00:20:12.653 --> 00:20:17.053
Rita Reimers: People call us and say their cats have been peeing for like two, three years outside the box.

00:20:17.473 --> 00:20:17.833
Andy Roark: Yes.

00:20:18.293 --> 00:20:21.313
Andy Roark: And they call me and they're into the rope.

00:20:21.513 --> 00:20:23.293
Andy Roark: They're like, I can't take this anymore.

00:20:23.313 --> 00:20:26.973
Andy Roark: And I'm going, we can do this, but it's probably gonna take us time to get here.

00:20:26.993 --> 00:20:27.893
Andy Roark: It's gonna take us time to get back.

00:20:27.913 --> 00:20:30.253
Andy Roark: I really wish you'd call me before you were totally done.

00:20:30.313 --> 00:20:35.673
Linda Hall: We tell people, you know, we had a client not long ago that I did a pre-consult with and the cats peeing outside the box.

00:20:35.693 --> 00:20:37.093
Linda Hall: And I said, has your cat been vet checked?

00:20:37.113 --> 00:20:37.713
Linda Hall: And she said, no.

00:20:37.733 --> 00:20:43.133
Linda Hall: And I said, okay, I'm gonna take down all your information and I'm gonna save it, but we're not gonna make you disappointment until you've had a vet clearance.

00:20:43.373 --> 00:20:47.633
Linda Hall: Because if your cat has a UTI or interstitial cystitis, there's nothing I can do to help.

00:20:47.793 --> 00:20:50.953
Linda Hall: Well, I could bring down the stress level for interstitial cystitis.

00:20:50.973 --> 00:20:51.613
Linda Hall: I ate that word.

00:20:53.333 --> 00:21:00.833
Linda Hall: But you know, and then I tell them, look, if there is a UTI and they clear it up and it's still happening, don't freak out.

00:21:00.853 --> 00:21:01.913
Linda Hall: It's become a habit.

00:21:01.913 --> 00:21:02.973
Linda Hall: Now you wanna call me.

00:21:03.213 --> 00:21:05.053
Linda Hall: Now you wanna book that appointment.

00:21:05.073 --> 00:21:07.033
Rita Reimers: I'm gonna put you on the spot, Andy.

00:21:08.373 --> 00:21:14.793
Rita Reimers: Why do vets always prescribe Dalaway and Prozac for cats peeing outside of the box?

00:21:15.313 --> 00:21:17.233
Rita Reimers: We hear that time and time again.

00:21:17.673 --> 00:21:18.013
Linda Hall: Sure.

00:21:18.173 --> 00:21:21.333
Andy Roark: So not to, not to, every pet is different, obviously.

00:21:21.593 --> 00:21:23.253
Andy Roark: Now I would tell you, I like Filaway.

00:21:23.253 --> 00:21:26.973
Andy Roark: The reason that we have Filaway, so Filaway is a pheromone.

00:21:26.993 --> 00:21:28.293
Andy Roark: There's really good science behind it.

00:21:28.313 --> 00:21:28.913
Andy Roark: And I will tell you that.

00:21:28.933 --> 00:21:29.793
Andy Roark: Like it is well-made.

00:21:29.813 --> 00:21:31.753
Andy Roark: There's good science and documentation behind it.

00:21:31.773 --> 00:21:32.973
Andy Roark: That actually works.

00:21:34.433 --> 00:21:38.473
Andy Roark: And it's used through a diffuser like the Glade plug-in.

00:21:38.573 --> 00:21:38.973
Andy Roark: Right.

00:21:40.093 --> 00:21:42.313
Andy Roark: The nice thing is there's research behind it.

00:21:42.373 --> 00:21:43.933
Andy Roark: You don't have to give it to the cat.

00:21:43.953 --> 00:21:45.113
Andy Roark: You know, it's not a pill.

00:21:45.133 --> 00:21:47.613
Andy Roark: It's not, you literally plug it in.

00:21:47.813 --> 00:21:50.393
Andy Roark: And especially it works, it tends to work in small spaces.

00:21:50.413 --> 00:21:53.613
Andy Roark: If you're in an apartment or something like that, this can be really good.

00:21:53.793 --> 00:21:55.153
Andy Roark: So it's got good data behind it.

00:21:55.353 --> 00:22:00.513
Andy Roark: And usually if we can get pet owners to take it home, the uptake, the compliance is usually really high.

00:22:00.533 --> 00:22:03.293
Andy Roark: Because they just plug it in and then just forget about it.

00:22:03.633 --> 00:22:05.033
Andy Roark: And it can have that benefit.

00:22:05.213 --> 00:22:13.573
Andy Roark: And the last part, it goes back to that stress component we were talking about before is, so often your interstitial cystitis, that often comes from the stress component, things like that.

00:22:13.793 --> 00:22:15.993
Andy Roark: The inner cat aggression, stress component, stuff like that.

00:22:16.073 --> 00:22:21.213
Andy Roark: So the idea that we can do this and it lasts and pet owners don't have to actively play.

00:22:21.233 --> 00:22:23.433
Andy Roark: I think that's the big reason we see feel-alike.

00:22:23.693 --> 00:22:30.333
Andy Roark: The other thing I would say too, when we were talking earlier about things we can do to have better visits coming into the vet, the feel-alike, they make it as a spray as well.

00:22:30.653 --> 00:22:34.373
Andy Roark: And again, boy, dousing the towel in the cat carrier, things like that.

00:22:35.613 --> 00:22:37.993
Andy Roark: The research shows that we can bring stress down here.

00:22:38.013 --> 00:22:42.233
Andy Roark: So feel-alike, that's why I think they go to it is mostly ease of application.

00:22:42.533 --> 00:22:43.453
Andy Roark: I have to go back and forth.

00:22:43.633 --> 00:22:44.833
Andy Roark: Here's the truth about behavior.

00:22:44.853 --> 00:22:47.133
Andy Roark: And I know you guys just, it took me a long time to realize this is my career.

00:22:47.153 --> 00:22:49.493
Andy Roark: Let me tell you something I was wrong about for a lot of my career.

00:22:49.893 --> 00:22:57.513
Andy Roark: I really, when I would see behavioral problems in cats or in dogs, I really leaned hard into training and I really wanted to lean into training.

00:22:57.533 --> 00:23:03.953
Andy Roark: And I didn't want to put dogs or cats on any sort of anti-anxiety medication until the training didn't work.

00:23:04.453 --> 00:23:07.573
Andy Roark: And you know what I've come to believe is that that's a flawed approach.

00:23:07.593 --> 00:23:19.273
Andy Roark: Because what happens is, if I have a cat or I have a dog and I do something to reduce their anxiety and then go hard on training when their anxiety level has been reduced, I'm often better.

00:23:19.913 --> 00:23:22.573
Andy Roark: I'm often much easier to fix that problem.

00:23:22.733 --> 00:23:27.033
Andy Roark: And then I can get them back off that anti-anxiety medication and everything's done.

00:23:27.413 --> 00:23:32.973
Andy Roark: What I messed up earlier on, guys, and if you practice it, you learn some things the hard way.

00:23:32.993 --> 00:23:33.593
Linda Hall: Live and learn.

00:23:34.873 --> 00:23:42.393
Andy Roark: What I learned was I would have a cat owner who would come and they would say, she's having these problems with the litter box and things and I would say, we're gonna work on environmental control.

00:23:42.413 --> 00:23:44.573
Andy Roark: We're gonna work on some training and things like that.

00:23:45.093 --> 00:23:48.213
Andy Roark: And then we would make some headway, but not enough.

00:23:48.433 --> 00:23:50.313
Andy Roark: And then they would just kind of get up.

00:23:50.333 --> 00:23:52.393
Andy Roark: They would go, I guess this is how it's going to be.

00:23:52.613 --> 00:23:54.093
Andy Roark: Or they would just get so frustrated.

00:23:54.233 --> 00:23:58.613
Andy Roark: And then I would sort of kind of throw drugs at the situation of like, well, let's try to reduce their anxiety.

00:23:58.633 --> 00:24:01.273
Andy Roark: But their enthusiasm, they'd already tried the training.

00:24:01.293 --> 00:24:03.613
Andy Roark: They didn't really believe in it anymore.

00:24:04.073 --> 00:24:09.033
Andy Roark: I would have been better off to push that anti-anxiety therapy and then lay the training on top of it.

00:24:09.353 --> 00:24:15.233
Andy Roark: With the idea that guys were gonna do this, my hope is that we will, once you get the training down, often you can come back off that anti-anxiety.

00:24:15.613 --> 00:24:17.953
Rita Reimers: But is PROSAC always the choice though?

00:24:17.973 --> 00:24:22.053
Rita Reimers: Cause it takes someone to try to try it up, to find out, oh, it's not doing.

00:24:22.153 --> 00:24:23.433
Linda Hall: I think that's our concern.

00:24:23.553 --> 00:24:31.713
Linda Hall: I wish more vets would work in tandem with behaviors because we had a client today, the sole problem is she's got cats outside.

00:24:31.773 --> 00:24:32.713
Linda Hall: That's the sole problem.

00:24:32.953 --> 00:24:35.173
Linda Hall: We can tell you how to safely keep the cats back.

00:24:35.513 --> 00:24:39.473
Linda Hall: Meanwhile, we're waiting eight weeks for the PROSAC to fully try to trade up.

00:24:39.593 --> 00:24:47.953
Linda Hall: I'm like, this cat is not having a chemical imbalance, a depression, there are cats that have anxiety issues.

00:24:47.973 --> 00:24:50.473
Linda Hall: We've had them and we're like, okay, that cat needs meds.

00:24:50.873 --> 00:24:55.133
Linda Hall: Go talk to your vet, because every time they drop a fork, the cat attacks them.

00:24:55.353 --> 00:25:01.693
Linda Hall: But the majority of them are temporary situations like introducing another cat or something that we can get around it.

00:25:02.853 --> 00:25:03.853
Andy Roark: No, I agree with that.

00:25:03.873 --> 00:25:07.673
Andy Roark: I think the choice of PROSAC generally comes down to, a big part of his cost.

00:25:08.393 --> 00:25:09.413
Andy Roark: It's super generic.

00:25:10.753 --> 00:25:12.213
Andy Roark: I mean, a big part of his cost.

00:25:12.233 --> 00:25:19.613
Andy Roark: You can lean into your other anti-anxiety medications, but very quickly without medical insurance, you're gonna get up there pretty quickly.

00:25:19.633 --> 00:25:21.633
Andy Roark: So PROSAC is generic.

00:25:21.653 --> 00:25:22.033
Andy Roark: It's available.

00:25:22.053 --> 00:25:23.933
Andy Roark: The other thing is that we can get PROSAC compounded.

00:25:24.393 --> 00:25:27.393
Andy Roark: And a lot of times cats do well with liquids.

00:25:27.993 --> 00:25:32.593
Andy Roark: And we pay attention to what can we get consistently too.

00:25:32.613 --> 00:25:36.533
Andy Roark: There's, I don't know if you guys ever had the experience with feline medication.

00:25:36.553 --> 00:25:41.453
Andy Roark: So a lot of times we want to give them compounded, which means we get, with appeal, we get it sort of turned into a gel, something like that.

00:25:41.473 --> 00:25:42.533
Andy Roark: That's much easier to give the cat.

00:25:42.933 --> 00:25:51.973
Andy Roark: But these things, it's amazing to me how often you'll find a pharmacy that will supply it, but then they don't supply it anymore, or they're out of it, or it's gonna be a while they get more.

00:25:52.133 --> 00:25:54.453
Andy Roark: And then you just become this sort of, you're chasing around.

00:25:54.473 --> 00:25:57.933
Andy Roark: And so anyway, getting something that works consistently, that you can lay your hands on it.

00:25:57.953 --> 00:25:59.473
Andy Roark: I think that those are big parts to it.

00:25:59.933 --> 00:26:01.673
Andy Roark: You're exactly right about the tight rate up.

00:26:01.853 --> 00:26:14.193
Andy Roark: You know, oftentimes, especially, I encourage people, if you're going through this and you're working with your behaviors, you're working with your trainer, and we're starting something like Prozac or things like that, and we're still not getting what we need, and we're waiting to tight rate up, and waiting to tight rate up.

00:26:14.533 --> 00:26:16.733
Andy Roark: Oftentimes there's things that we can add in the short term.

00:26:17.133 --> 00:26:18.893
Andy Roark: Like, for example, the Gabapentin that we're talking about.

00:26:18.913 --> 00:26:20.253
Rita Reimers: Like GABA, yeah, we love GABA.

00:26:20.493 --> 00:26:23.533
Linda Hall: We're big fans, we're big fans of GABA.

00:26:23.733 --> 00:26:28.733
Andy Roark: We can use that while we bring up our other long-term medication, something like that.

00:26:28.753 --> 00:26:34.173
Andy Roark: So anyway, there's other things we can work on, but Rita, I hope I answered your question there about sort of feel-alike and Prozac.

00:26:34.473 --> 00:26:37.273
Andy Roark: We're speaking in broad generalities, that's generally kind of what we're...

00:26:37.293 --> 00:26:40.873
Linda Hall: Yeah, and that's another thing that always shocks me, people, the vet put them on a med.

00:26:41.233 --> 00:26:41.873
Linda Hall: Did it work?

00:26:41.913 --> 00:26:43.233
Linda Hall: I don't know, I can't get them to eat it.

00:26:43.553 --> 00:26:46.893
Linda Hall: You know, that comes in a transdermal gel and you can smear it in their ear.

00:26:47.033 --> 00:26:52.353
Linda Hall: I'm sorry, unless there's a reason not to, I think all cats should immediately be prescribed transdermal gels.

00:26:52.373 --> 00:26:54.433
Linda Hall: Keep giving us pills, it's not working.

00:26:55.153 --> 00:27:06.973
Andy Roark: Yeah, the transdermal gels have made such a big difference, and they're really a godsend, you know, so methimazole, the hyperthyroid medication.

00:27:07.093 --> 00:27:07.993
Andy Roark: Oh, yeah.

00:27:07.993 --> 00:27:09.233
Andy Roark: Yes, yes, yes.

00:27:09.253 --> 00:27:12.293
Andy Roark: And you've got these little old cats, you know what I mean?

00:27:12.513 --> 00:27:15.293
Andy Roark: That you can sort of fortunately wipe things in their ear.

00:27:16.153 --> 00:27:22.613
Andy Roark: You know, the downside to transdermals is just the dosing is a little bit less precise, you know what I mean?

00:27:22.873 --> 00:27:25.393
Andy Roark: Because it's kind of, how do you measure goo?

00:27:25.513 --> 00:27:26.213
Andy Roark: You know, a little bit?

00:27:26.233 --> 00:27:26.953
Rita Reimers: Yeah, true.

00:27:27.353 --> 00:27:28.873
Andy Roark: You can kind of do it, but there's that.

00:27:29.053 --> 00:27:35.933
Andy Roark: And the other part is just, it's funny, cats with tiny ears and things like that, I've seen them have goo just kind of building up in there.

00:27:35.953 --> 00:27:37.193
Andy Roark: And again, that's a rare case.

00:27:37.213 --> 00:27:50.773
Andy Roark: Generally, it works very well, but those transdermal medication, I'm with you, but if you don't ask, if you don't say to your vet, hey, I'm not able to get this medication, and oftentimes they won't give you an alternative.

00:27:50.793 --> 00:27:58.233
Andy Roark: I had a pet just yesterday, and they had had a, it's a tooth root abscess.

00:27:58.333 --> 00:28:06.173
Andy Roark: And so they had an abscess in their mouth, and it was important, we need to get them on some antibiotics because we need to resolve that infection.

00:28:06.273 --> 00:28:13.053
Andy Roark: And then also pain control, of course, because boy, if you ever had some sort of dental problem, it hurts, and so we've kind of gone through it.

00:28:13.433 --> 00:28:18.933
Andy Roark: And this is a patient that was doing totally well and everything, and I wanted to send them home with pain medication, so I sent them home.

00:28:18.953 --> 00:28:24.793
Andy Roark: And as soon as we started to lead, they were like, hey, he's not gonna take these pills.

00:28:24.813 --> 00:28:25.393
Linda Hall: Bad chance.

00:28:25.733 --> 00:28:36.073
Andy Roark: Good, I'm glad you said nothing before you left because we can totally do an injectable version of this to get started, and sure enough, you get the pain down, and then you can give them pills.

00:28:36.193 --> 00:28:39.953
Andy Roark: But if you don't have a way to reduce the pain, then you can't give them pills.

00:28:39.973 --> 00:28:41.173
Linda Hall: I've been sick.

00:28:41.173 --> 00:28:45.773
Linda Hall: Everybody leaves me alone when I'm ill or in pain because they know I'm a jerk.

00:28:46.233 --> 00:28:51.233
Andy Roark: Could you imagine someone grabbing your face and trying to stick a pill down your throat?

00:28:51.253 --> 00:28:52.213
Rita Reimers: I'd probably bite them.

00:28:52.633 --> 00:28:53.513
Andy Roark: Oh, absolutely.

00:28:54.193 --> 00:28:55.873
Andy Roark: Totally understandable response.

00:28:56.653 --> 00:29:08.233
Rita Reimers: I wanna make sure we talk a little bit about your podcast, The Cone of Shame, and in fact, I was just telling Linda, there's an episode I want to make sure I listen to, Medical Conditions Masquerading as Behavioral.

00:29:08.253 --> 00:29:10.613
Andy Roark: Oh, you need to be on that episode.

00:29:10.633 --> 00:29:27.233
Andy Roark: So I have a board of veterinary behaviors and we're talking about medical conditions masquerading as behavior conditions, which honestly guys, it was right on what we were talking about earlier, which you've got a cat and they're peeing outside the litter box and people say, well, it's behavior, it's behavior.

00:29:27.473 --> 00:29:29.133
Andy Roark: Well, what if it's not?

00:29:29.153 --> 00:29:31.133
Andy Roark: What if it's early onset diabetes?

00:29:31.153 --> 00:29:32.753
Andy Roark: What if we've got glucose in our urine?

00:29:32.973 --> 00:29:37.113
Andy Roark: What if it's, and people don't think of things like this, what if it's an orthopedic issue?

00:29:37.133 --> 00:29:43.713
Andy Roark: What if we have arthritis and getting in to the litter box is painful or harder than it used to be?

00:29:43.733 --> 00:29:45.193
Andy Roark: Those are just things people don't think about.

00:29:45.213 --> 00:29:55.853
Andy Roark: And so going down the path of straight into training, it can be a mistake because if there's a medical cause of driving it, you're not gonna train your way out of it.

00:29:56.033 --> 00:30:02.233
Andy Roark: And then also that time is going by, this behavior is becoming set in, but ooh, I decided I like peeing over.

00:30:02.253 --> 00:30:03.633
Rita Reimers: Yeah, it becomes a habit then.

00:30:03.653 --> 00:30:05.693
Linda Hall: This is a nice place to go, exactly.

00:30:05.693 --> 00:30:12.413
Linda Hall: I just did a social media post yesterday or the day before about those stupid top-loading litter boxes.

00:30:12.433 --> 00:30:12.873
Rita Reimers: Hate those.

00:30:12.893 --> 00:30:20.693
Linda Hall: And I'm like, if your cat is 12 years old, I'm about guarantee you, I'm gonna put the money on the fact that this cat has arthritis.

00:30:20.953 --> 00:30:23.913
Linda Hall: And now it's gonna launch itself up and out of this hole.

00:30:23.913 --> 00:30:25.673
Linda Hall: Are you kidding me right now?

00:30:26.033 --> 00:30:30.593
Andy Roark: My favorite litter boxes are the big sweater boxes you get at Target.

00:30:31.033 --> 00:30:34.913
Andy Roark: You know, they're low, they're like maybe three inches or so.

00:30:34.933 --> 00:30:36.593
Andy Roark: We love those.

00:30:36.613 --> 00:30:39.293
Andy Roark: And they're broad, so they're low and wide.

00:30:39.613 --> 00:30:48.853
Andy Roark: And so, again, I understand people may have space for them in the apartment or something, but if you can, I really like those open, low litter boxes.

00:30:49.013 --> 00:30:52.113
Andy Roark: My lead litter boxes are the ones that are tall and also the ones that are covered.

00:30:52.133 --> 00:30:54.313
Andy Roark: Because again, cats don't like to go into these.

00:30:54.333 --> 00:30:54.813
Rita Reimers: No, they don't.

00:30:54.833 --> 00:30:56.433
Andy Roark: They only have one entrance and exit.

00:30:56.593 --> 00:31:03.773
Andy Roark: They feel trapped, especially if you've got, a lot of times people will use those because they have dogs.

00:31:04.233 --> 00:31:06.113
Andy Roark: And the idea is that they'll keep the dogs out.

00:31:06.273 --> 00:31:07.893
Rita Reimers: Yeah, so the dogs don't have a snack.

00:31:08.453 --> 00:31:09.213
Andy Roark: Exactly right.

00:31:09.233 --> 00:31:09.633
Andy Roark: And they do.

00:31:10.913 --> 00:31:16.453
Andy Roark: But you create a place where there's only one entrance and exit and the dog is going to trap you in there.

00:31:16.473 --> 00:31:18.433
Andy Roark: And it's just things like that.

00:31:18.453 --> 00:31:21.853
Andy Roark: So anyway, the podcast is called The Cone of Shame.

00:31:22.793 --> 00:31:26.233
Andy Roark: It is a podcast about life in veterinary medicine.

00:31:26.413 --> 00:31:28.433
Andy Roark: And so I do episodes called, How Do You Treat That?

00:31:28.453 --> 00:31:30.953
Andy Roark: Which is what we were just talking about.

00:31:31.353 --> 00:31:37.153
Andy Roark: And I tried to make it, I really made it for veterinarians, but I wanted to make it for our vet nurses and other people in the hospital.

00:31:37.453 --> 00:31:43.433
Andy Roark: But what I really tried to do is make it mimic the conversation that veterinarians have in the doctor's office.

00:31:43.833 --> 00:31:52.153
Andy Roark: One time I come in and I say, hey, you know, I'm looking at this cat that has come in for inappropriate urination.

00:31:52.413 --> 00:31:55.753
Andy Roark: And I put the ultrasound on her abdomen and her bladder is just totally empty.

00:31:55.773 --> 00:31:57.153
Andy Roark: I can't get a urine sample.

00:31:57.533 --> 00:32:02.613
Andy Roark: I don't want to start this cat on antibiotics because oftentimes these are not urinary tract infections.

00:32:02.633 --> 00:32:03.893
Andy Roark: And I want to be a good steward.

00:32:04.633 --> 00:32:07.873
Andy Roark: But also I don't have a sample.

00:32:08.093 --> 00:32:10.713
Andy Roark: Hey, other doctor, how do you treat this?

00:32:10.733 --> 00:32:11.693
Andy Roark: What do you do with these?

00:32:12.033 --> 00:32:15.533
Andy Roark: And then we have that conversation there and I bring it to the best specialists in the world.

00:32:16.053 --> 00:32:20.533
Andy Roark: And just to ask them, oh, the pearls, the pearls that they scatter are amazing.

00:32:20.793 --> 00:32:24.953
Andy Roark: And then, you know, always lifelong learning, you know, always trying to get better.

00:32:25.693 --> 00:32:27.993
Andy Roark: And then I talk a lot about our industry.

00:32:27.993 --> 00:32:30.933
Andy Roark: I mean, I think that medicine industry is fascinating.

00:32:30.953 --> 00:32:32.853
Andy Roark: We talked a bit about the mental health stuff earlier.

00:32:33.653 --> 00:32:36.633
Andy Roark: The corporate consolidation is really interesting.

00:32:36.753 --> 00:32:45.713
Andy Roark: You know, I don't know if people know, but we've gone through a period in the last five or six years where these companies and some of them mega companies, they're just buying up so many.

00:32:45.733 --> 00:32:47.453
Rita Reimers: We've noticed that, yes.

00:32:47.793 --> 00:32:51.013
Andy Roark: It's just that the industry is radically changing.

00:32:51.193 --> 00:32:57.053
Andy Roark: We're, you know, we're somewhere around 40% of the hospitals are owned by corporate groups.

00:32:57.073 --> 00:32:58.833
Andy Roark: It used to be, it used to be none.

00:32:59.693 --> 00:33:01.973
Rita Reimers: They used to be all independent owned.

00:33:02.673 --> 00:33:03.713
Andy Roark: Yeah, exactly.

00:33:03.793 --> 00:33:08.053
Andy Roark: But I still think that there's, I think you're going to have independent, locally owned veterinarians.

00:33:08.073 --> 00:33:09.273
Andy Roark: I think that there's going to be-

00:33:09.293 --> 00:33:09.913
Rita Reimers: You have one vet here.

00:33:10.153 --> 00:33:11.093
Andy Roark: You have one vet.

00:33:11.573 --> 00:33:12.493
Rita Reimers: One vet town.

00:33:12.513 --> 00:33:14.213
Linda Hall: Small town, small town.

00:33:14.233 --> 00:33:15.673
Rita Reimers: Well, one office, I should say.

00:33:15.693 --> 00:33:17.053
Rita Reimers: I think there's six vets in there.

00:33:17.073 --> 00:33:17.433
Linda Hall: Yes.

00:33:17.573 --> 00:33:30.773
Linda Hall: Well, I appreciate that you're educating other veterinarians because like I said, you know, we get our birds up our butt every once in a while because so often somebody brings the cat in and says, my cat's being outside the box or my cat's whatever, my cat's aggressive and they're stuck out in there, get dill away and get Prozac.

00:33:30.793 --> 00:33:32.673
Linda Hall: And that's where they end the conversation.

00:33:33.053 --> 00:33:39.513
Linda Hall: We need to get the anxiety down to work with them, but then we need to work with them and the understanding.

00:33:39.593 --> 00:33:44.113
Linda Hall: We had a client one day who was very angry with his cat and he was this close to rehoming.

00:33:44.133 --> 00:33:45.513
Linda Hall: I hate it when they write that on their form.

00:33:45.533 --> 00:33:47.473
Linda Hall: If this doesn't work, I'm gonna rehome them.

00:33:47.633 --> 00:34:00.333
Linda Hall: He was going away for a weekend every month for work and every time he came back, the cat had pooped on his pillow, which of course means that the cat was mad at him for leaving and punished him by pooping on his pillow.

00:34:00.333 --> 00:34:12.393
Linda Hall: And I'm like, no, baby, your cat missed you so much that he went to the biggest scent soaker in your home, your bed, and he mixed his scent with yours to comfort himself while you're gone.

00:34:12.993 --> 00:34:16.653
Linda Hall: And I wanted to say, and you want to give him away, but I didn't say the last part, okay?

00:34:16.673 --> 00:34:18.193
Rita Reimers: But he didn't give him away because we helped him.

00:34:18.213 --> 00:34:19.033
Linda Hall: He didn't give him away.

00:34:19.213 --> 00:34:20.513
Linda Hall: But yeah, I hope he's not listening.

00:34:20.653 --> 00:34:23.273
Linda Hall: But you know, it's understanding.

00:34:23.293 --> 00:34:25.253
Linda Hall: There's no bully cats, no spiteful cats.

00:34:25.273 --> 00:34:26.373
Linda Hall: They're not holding revenge.

00:34:26.433 --> 00:34:27.193
Linda Hall: None of that crap exists.

00:34:27.213 --> 00:34:29.113
Rita Reimers: Well, the one that really gets me is the jealousy.

00:34:29.193 --> 00:34:33.553
Rita Reimers: Cats, they're not, they don't have the complex emotions like we have.

00:34:33.553 --> 00:34:34.753
Rita Reimers: They don't have jealousy.

00:34:34.893 --> 00:34:39.113
Rita Reimers: They have resource guarding and wanting to keep things to themselves, but it's not jealousy.

00:34:39.233 --> 00:34:44.193
Andy Roark: Yeah, well, that marriage between medicine and training is just so important.

00:34:44.333 --> 00:34:55.733
Andy Roark: And it's, I don't want to liken it too much to human mental health, but I think our human doctors have, they get a bit of a habit of writing a prescription and disappearing, you know what I mean?

00:34:56.313 --> 00:35:02.033
Andy Roark: And again, I understand everybody's busy and we're all trying to get through the day and get everything done.

00:35:02.333 --> 00:35:06.913
Andy Roark: In behavior cases, they take conversation and follow up and things like that.

00:35:06.933 --> 00:35:09.313
Andy Roark: But I just, that's why I think you guys are doing such a service.

00:35:09.333 --> 00:35:19.413
Andy Roark: And I just, I love that you are there for people and that you put in the time, especially with this podcast, it's that education, but it's supporting people on an ongoing basis talking about doing the work in the home.

00:35:19.433 --> 00:35:27.773
Andy Roark: And so I just, putting that, putting that together with, you know, sort of the medical component and make sure our bases are covered and we get support from veterinarians that we need.

00:35:28.333 --> 00:35:30.973
Andy Roark: I think that marriage is really important.

00:35:30.993 --> 00:35:36.573
Rita Reimers: I'd like to see veterinarians and cat behaviorists and dog behaviorists work more together.

00:35:37.033 --> 00:35:37.973
Linda Hall: Yeah, exactly.

00:35:38.113 --> 00:35:40.213
Rita Reimers: I think that would really be beneficial to everyone.

00:35:40.473 --> 00:35:44.453
Linda Hall: Our first statement anytime there's a behavior issue is have you been to the vet?

00:35:44.753 --> 00:35:46.853
Linda Hall: You need to go to the vet.

00:35:47.013 --> 00:35:49.713
Linda Hall: I want a clearance before I'm going to talk to you.

00:35:50.253 --> 00:35:51.933
Rita Reimers: I hate that we have to wrap this up.

00:35:51.953 --> 00:35:53.273
Rita Reimers: We've actually gone a little bit over.

00:35:53.893 --> 00:35:55.553
Rita Reimers: Andy, would you come back again?

00:35:55.953 --> 00:35:58.553
Andy Roark: Of course, I would be thrilled to come back.

00:35:58.573 --> 00:35:59.733
Andy Roark: I've so enjoyed being here.

00:36:00.593 --> 00:36:01.653
Rita Reimers: You're just up the road for me.

00:36:01.673 --> 00:36:03.193
Rita Reimers: I think you're still in Georgia.

00:36:03.213 --> 00:36:03.573
Linda Hall: Georgia.

00:36:03.673 --> 00:36:04.793
Andy Roark: Greenville, South Carolina.

00:36:04.913 --> 00:36:05.893
Linda Hall: You're in Greenville.

00:36:05.893 --> 00:36:08.553
Rita Reimers: I lived in Greenville a long time ago for about five years.

00:36:08.573 --> 00:36:09.133
Linda Hall: You're very close.

00:36:09.353 --> 00:36:10.333
Linda Hall: I thought you were in Georgia.

00:36:11.413 --> 00:36:15.413
Linda Hall: I'm sorry, but I have to request a bad dad joke before we go.

00:36:15.993 --> 00:36:18.453
Andy Roark: Let's see.

00:36:18.453 --> 00:36:19.173
Andy Roark: I'm trying to think.

00:36:19.833 --> 00:36:20.273
Andy Roark: There's...

00:36:20.973 --> 00:36:24.653
Andy Roark: Oh, boy.

00:36:26.273 --> 00:36:27.093
Andy Roark: I'll tell you about it.

00:36:28.093 --> 00:36:35.453
Andy Roark: If I had to write ophthalmology jokes or dermatology jokes, I would always write ophthalmology jokes.

00:36:35.473 --> 00:36:36.153
Andy Roark: Do you know why?

00:36:36.573 --> 00:36:38.693
Andy Roark: Because the punch lines are always cornea.

00:36:39.633 --> 00:36:40.093
Andy Roark: I know.

00:36:40.113 --> 00:36:41.473
Andy Roark: I didn't say it was a good joke.

00:36:42.193 --> 00:36:42.673
Linda Hall: That was good.

00:36:42.693 --> 00:36:43.733
Linda Hall: That's what I asked for.

00:36:43.753 --> 00:36:44.633
Linda Hall: I asked for...

00:36:44.653 --> 00:36:47.193
Rita Reimers: It sounds like something your husband would say.

00:36:47.553 --> 00:36:48.633
Linda Hall: Yeah, it really does.

00:36:48.653 --> 00:36:49.753
Linda Hall: Yeah, exactly.

00:36:50.333 --> 00:36:50.853
Linda Hall: What was that?

00:36:50.873 --> 00:36:52.593
Linda Hall: What was the dog's favorite breakfast?

00:36:52.793 --> 00:36:53.373
Linda Hall: What was it?

00:36:53.433 --> 00:36:54.093
Linda Hall: Pooch?

00:36:54.113 --> 00:36:55.853
Linda Hall: It was one you did.

00:36:55.973 --> 00:36:57.333
Linda Hall: It's your joke, Andy.

00:36:57.353 --> 00:36:59.473
Linda Hall: He's done a million of them.

00:36:59.493 --> 00:37:00.333
Linda Hall: I don't remember now.

00:37:00.353 --> 00:37:01.413
Andy Roark: I don't even remember.

00:37:01.673 --> 00:37:05.513
Andy Roark: I come up with jokes and make myself laugh, and then I just put them on social media.

00:37:07.333 --> 00:37:10.513
Andy Roark: I see my own stuff from a couple of years ago, and I crack myself up.

00:37:14.633 --> 00:37:17.333
Rita Reimers: Please come back again when we can talk about even more.

00:37:17.613 --> 00:37:19.893
Rita Reimers: We love what you do and keep on doing it.

00:37:19.953 --> 00:37:20.513
Andy Roark: Thanks, guys.

00:37:20.673 --> 00:37:29.633
Rita Reimers: And of course, I have to thank Linda for always being by my side, my ride or die, and Mark Winter for giving us this wonderful opportunity on Pet Life Radio.

00:37:29.833 --> 00:37:32.593
Rita Reimers: Just remember, every day is Caturday.

00:37:32.713 --> 00:37:34.013
Rita Reimers: And we'll see you next time.

00:37:34.713 --> 00:37:40.353
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