19 Cats And Counting

BIO:

Rachel Geller, Ed.D. is a certified Cat Behavior and Retention Specialist through the Humane Society and a certified Humane Education Specialist through the Academy of Prosocial Learning. She is also a certified Pet Chaplain® through the Association of Veterinary Pastoral Education. Rachel consults with many cat shelters and is certified as a Fear Free Shelter specialist. She was on The Cat Connection Board of Directors from 2017 to 2020. Previously, she was on the Board of Directors in the role of vice-president at the Gifford Cat Shelter for 7 years. She is currently a cat behaviorist/consultant for The Cat Connection, Here Today Adopted Tomorrow Animal Sanctuary and Baypath Humane Society, and provides cat behavior help both locally and throughout the country to her clients, including cat owners and shelters.

Daniel Fissel

I am a hard-working individual who is great at working both in teams and independently. I have a very high standard of care and a strong pride in my work. I am very up-beat and friendly and just want to help out where I can. My objective is to help animals get the care that they need and deserve.

I have a real passion for training and teaching. I love seeing the look on an assistant's face when they draw blood for the first time or the smile that comes when a technician has that lightbulb moment of "THAT'S what the bladder feels like!" I would love/am working on creating a role where I can focus on medical skills training and improving efficiency at animal hospitals.

Transcript:

 

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Announcer: This is PetLife Radio.

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Announcer: Let's talk pets.

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Linda Hall: We are so excited, we got double trouble today.

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Linda Hall: We have Dr.

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Linda Hall: Rachel Geller here.

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Linda Hall: She is one of our favoritest humans in the whole wide world.

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Linda Hall: She is an amazing behaviorist who does so much for so many.

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Linda Hall: And joining her today is Daniel Fissel, who is a vet tech.

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Linda Hall: I am so excited.

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Linda Hall: We're gonna talk to them as soon as we hear from this word from our sponsor.

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Announcer: Let's Talk Pets on petliferadio.com.

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Linda Hall: Welcome back to 19 Cats and Counting.

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Linda Hall: I am your co-host, Linda Hall, here with the ever-gorgeous, newly recovered from COVID, Rita Reimers.

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Linda Hall: Look in the face.

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Rita Reimers: It feels good to be back from the brink of COVID.

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Rita Reimers: It was horrible.

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Rita Reimers: See, I have a Brenda Vaccaro voice going on.

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Rita Reimers: Those of you who are young don't know who that is.

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Linda Hall: It's sexy, baby.

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Rita Reimers: But enough about-

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Linda Hall: We love Dr.

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Linda Hall: Rachel, and I am so excited.

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Linda Hall: We have a vet tech, so we need to bring them on, but I need to say first, everybody listen to me.

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Linda Hall: Vet techs are the nurses of the veterinary world.

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Rita Reimers: They are.

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Linda Hall: They're not some assistant that was hired to just do silly things, and they get all the crap.

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Linda Hall: Literally, there's probably crap on their coat.

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Rita Reimers: Yeah, who's the one that sticks a thermometer up the bum?

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Linda Hall: Right, right?

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Linda Hall: You don't see the doctors giving injections to the mean cat.

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Linda Hall: You don't see the doctor.

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Linda Hall: Not to bash our vets, we love our vets, but to make the most use of them, we have our vet techs.

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Linda Hall: And as we know, nurses are on the front line of the medical world.

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Linda Hall: Our vet techs are the front line of the veterinary medical world.

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Rita Reimers: Vet techs are nurses.

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Linda Hall: So thank your vet tech and be a little nicer to them.

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Linda Hall: Geez, they get all the crap.

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Rita Reimers: They're the ones that get the gifts at Christmas when I send candy and stuff.

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Rita Reimers: I love Dr.

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Rita Reimers: Glenn, but the vet techs, they're the ones.

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Daniel Fissel: Be nice to the front as well.

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Linda Hall: Oh yes, definitely.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: Be nice to the whole office.

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Linda Hall: Just be nice, Doc Connick.

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Rita Reimers: Just be nice.

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Rita Reimers: No hisses, no poofy tales.

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Linda Hall: They're all exactly, they're all you're gonna help you.

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Linda Hall: So we're gonna talk about medical versus behavior issues.

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Linda Hall: They can look identical, right?

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Linda Hall: So what is our number one?

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Linda Hall: Either of you tell me, what is our number one that we see this most often where we're like, it could be behavioral, it could be medical.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: Well, I'm gonna take this one because by far hands down, the most common question I get asked or concern that is brought to me has to do with that litter box.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: I mean, you would just think, how complicated can that plastic box with some sandy stuff in there be?

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Dr. Rachel Geller: But it's a huge big deal to our cats and litter box issues are a big part of what I do.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: I'm sure Rita and Linda, it's a huge part of what you do.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: And I know Dan looks at the medical piece of that.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: So let's jump in, let's jump in the litter box first.

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Rita Reimers: That's the issue that makes people say, I got to get rid of this cat because it's hard to, I wouldn't, I don't want to live with litter box issues.

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Linda Hall: Nobody wants to live with pee and poop all over the house.

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Linda Hall: Exactly.

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Linda Hall: So Dr.

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Linda Hall: Rachel, let's hit the behavior.

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Linda Hall: What could this be behaviorally?

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Dr. Rachel Geller: So behaviorally, there's so much that goes into it, but bullet points, cats feel extremely vulnerable in their litter boxes.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: So they always want to be sure to have a clear, clean field of vision.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: They want clear sight lines all the way around them.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: They want to know that should an opponent appear, and these opponents can be real or imagined that they have the opportunity for escape.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: So potential for escape, ample visual warning time, clear visual field.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: These are all things that are super important to a cat.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: So a lot of us tend to put a litter box in a corner or under something, and this could be affecting your cat's litter box use.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: Number of boxes is important as well.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: My rule is always one more box than the number of cats that you have, but you may need more than that.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: If you have a cat who feels threatened or intimidated, that cat may need another box in another location.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: The size of the box, the height of the sides, whether the box is covered or uncovered, the type of litter maybe is too perfumey for the cat.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: Cats want a litter that has a soft, sandy, unscented smell to it.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: That's not the right way to say it, but you guys get what I'm saying.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: You know, the last time I checked outside...

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Daniel Fissel: Lack of scent.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: Thank you, Dan.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: The last time I checked outside, the soil was not perfumed or have additives in it.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: So we want to replicate that as much as possible.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: So choosing the right box and making sure it's safe and making sure it meets your cat's needs is a huge, big deal in your cat's world.

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Rita Reimers: I love the phrase, one of the key phrases you said, real or imagined threats, right?

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Dr. Rachel Geller: Yes.

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Rita Reimers: Oh, there's nobody's bothering her by the litter.

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Rita Reimers: No, but she may be smelling other cats outside or something else is making her skeptical to get in the box because she thinks she's gonna get it.

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Rita Reimers: When she gets in the box, somebody's gonna get her, right?

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Dr. Rachel Geller: Yes, yes.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: Cats really don't want to be ambushed in that box.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: And it is an instinct of theirs because they are both predator and prey.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: So they want to make sure they're safe.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: And when they're in that pooping position or that peeing position, these are very technical terms, by the way.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: I studied a lot to learn all of this.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: You know, they feel vulnerable.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: They know they can be easily attacked or ambushed.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: And so it's a little bit of a stress.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: I mean, when we go to the bathroom, we don't think about, okay, how am I going to escape?

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Dr. Rachel Geller: But your cat does.

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Daniel Fissel: Yes.

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Linda Hall: But if I was going to the bathroom, that is exactly not when I want the boogeyman to break in because I can't run with my pants at my ankle.

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Linda Hall: So I'm kind of feeling on them.

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Daniel Fissel: So it's even scarier, yeah.

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Linda Hall: Exactly, so I understand.

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Linda Hall: So Dan, what medical issues could cause this and why?

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Daniel Fissel: So certain things like urinary tract infections or other things that cause urinary issues like feline lower urinary tract disease or fluted, as you'll hear people call it.

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Daniel Fissel: That's when it's just kind of inflammation down there that no one's really entirely sure exactly why that's happening, but it happens in some of the cats.

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Daniel Fissel: And so there's things that can be done to help with that.

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Daniel Fissel: But if they start associating the pain of one of those inflammatory issues with being in that box, then they're going to start saying, ah, ah, I don't really wanna be in there.

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Daniel Fissel: Or if it increases their urgency of how frequently they need to pee, they might not be able to make it to the box.

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Daniel Fissel: When all of a sudden the urge hits and they need to pee, they get up out of their cat tree and, oh, I can't make, I don't think I can make it all the way there.

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Daniel Fissel: Let me pee on this rug instead.

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Daniel Fissel: Let me pee, you know, I was sleeping on the bed, now I've peed on the bed.

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Daniel Fissel: They weren't doing it because they were mad at you.

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Daniel Fissel: They may have been doing it because they were-

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Rita Reimers: Thank you for saying that, yes.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: Yes, yes.

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Daniel Fissel: Because they were having an issue.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: I hear that all the time.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: You know, my cat peed on my bed because she was mad at me or my cat peed on my shoes to teach me a lesson or my cat peed on my socks because she doesn't like my new boyfriend.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: Although that one could be true.

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Rita Reimers: That I was going to say that one could be true.

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Linda Hall: But it's still not to teach you a lesson, right?

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Linda Hall: It's to claim you because I'm nervous about this.

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Linda Hall: Yes, yes.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: All seriousness, you know, cats want their needs met.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: And if your cat is using the litter box, it's because it meets her needs in terms of location and safety and security and box size and box type.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: And if the same cat is not using the litter box, she is not in any way misbehaving.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: She does not think about right or wrong the way we do.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: She has some problem in her life, and she is trying to solve that problem as a cat.

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Rita Reimers: And I think some of it too, Dr.

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Rita Reimers: Geller, correct me if I'm wrong, when they're sick, I think they're instinctually, they want to do their business away from where the clowder does it, because they don't want to spread their illness.

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Rita Reimers: Would you say that's true?

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Dr. Rachel Geller: Absolutely.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: Yeah, no, you're absolutely right.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: You know, they have all of these instincts that guide their behavior, you know, to meet their needs and to stay safe.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: So yes, they don't want the rest of the cats to get sick.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: And also they know they don't feel as well.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: They know they're not moving as quickly.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: They know they're in pain.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: And so they also don't want predators to know where they are.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: So all kinds of instincts that come into play.

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Linda Hall: Every time my Kismet has an FIV flare up, he hides behind the toilet.

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Linda Hall: If you can't find Kismet, he's flaring, and we need to get on it.

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Linda Hall: And so, Dan, isn't it true that stress can cause some of these inflammations?

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Linda Hall: So it can be like six and one half dozen of the others, my father would say.

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Daniel Fissel: Stress can definitely exacerbate those things.

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Daniel Fissel: So often we have, I have a lot of pet owners that call up and they're like, hey, my looted cat, you know, we just had movers start doing construction, or, you know, we just had construction start in the area.

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Daniel Fissel: Now they're peeing outside the box.

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Daniel Fissel: I think that it's the beginning of their UTI that they always get.

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Daniel Fissel: And so if it's a chronic case every now and then, a vet might prescribe antibiotics without something, you know, like an exam, but more often than not, they're still gonna wanna see them because stress can cause other issues as well, not just the urinary thing.

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Daniel Fissel: And then I also wanted to comment on it before I forgot.

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Daniel Fissel: I remember Dr.

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Daniel Fissel: Rachel talking about the height of the litter box, and that can be really important as your cat ages as well, because as they're aging and, you know, getting arthritis and things, they can't step into that tall box anymore.

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Daniel Fissel: So sometimes you'd be like, my cat, this has been the litter box they've been using their whole life.

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Daniel Fissel: Well, yeah.

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Rita Reimers: What about those top loaders?

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Linda Hall: You just took that out of my head.

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Rita Reimers: You know, expect the cat to jump down in and then jump up out.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: Right, they're older, they may be athritic, they may be overweight, and they're just not as agile as they were when they were kittens.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: And I kind of think of any human who moves the same way and uses the same items as they did when they were toddlers.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: But yeah, we put that expectation on our cats.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: And Dan is correct, as they age, their litter box needs definitely change.

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Daniel Fissel: And every cat's different.

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Daniel Fissel: Every cat has their own personal preference on what it likes, and that might change over time, just like with us.

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Linda Hall: Very good point.

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Rita Reimers: My three-legged Smoochie, she used to be pretty agile even with the missing leg, but now that she's older, she's not so much.

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Rita Reimers: So I had to get one of those really low senior type boxes.

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Rita Reimers: Otherwise she'll go right next to it because she can't exactly haul herself into it anymore.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: You know, Rita, I've even had some clients where I've suggested that they just use a plastic boot tray or a cookie sheet as a litter box.

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Rita Reimers: Nice, that's a good idea.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: Yeah, because even the little size were too much for some cats.

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Dr. Rachel Geller: Yeah.

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Daniel Fissel: And they make ones like that that we use for, you know, when I've worked with shelters and things like that, they make little flat litter boxes that are, you know, they're pretty much, as she said, a cookie cutter tray or lunch tray from the cafeteria, you know.

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Daniel Fissel: Yeah.

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Linda Hall: Good idea.

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Linda Hall: You know, there's a couple of the issues I've seen.

00:12:34.746 --> 00:12:40.526
Linda Hall: My parents used to winter in Florida and I got a phone call one day and my mother said, I'm really worried your dad's about had it.

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Linda Hall: This cat started peeing on our bed.

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Linda Hall: And they're staying in a mobile home community with all the other old people.

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Linda Hall: So, you know, they have to go to the laundromat.

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Linda Hall: So everybody wants to go to get into bed and find their sheets.

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Linda Hall: So, I said, okay, first, when did you last go to the vet?

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Linda Hall: Well, it had been a couple of months.

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Linda Hall: I said, okay, well, that's gonna need to be, but have you changed litter recently?

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Linda Hall: They adopted a cat who was front clawed and my dad switched, poor man, he's like 84, and he switched to something that was lighter to carrier and it hurt her paws.

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Linda Hall: She wasn't having it, so she peed on the bed.

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Linda Hall: That substrate, all the things for comfort.

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Rita Reimers: And why up on the bed?

00:13:17.426 --> 00:13:18.466
Rita Reimers: It's up high.

00:13:18.846 --> 00:13:26.726
Dr. Rachel Geller: Elevation, right, elevation, safety, going back to that clear visual field, ample potential to escape.

00:13:26.746 --> 00:13:32.526
Dr. Rachel Geller: I mean, we certainly don't love the thought of our cat peeing on the bed, but from the cat's perspective, it really solves a lot of problems.

00:13:32.546 --> 00:13:32.766
Daniel Fissel: It does.

00:13:32.786 --> 00:13:38.546
Dr. Rachel Geller: She's feeling, and declawed cats are always feeling stressed about protecting themselves.

00:13:39.366 --> 00:13:51.146
Dr. Rachel Geller: So, you take a normal cat whose instinct is already to protect himself from opponents and predators and even other cats who may be rougher or tougher than he is, that's heightened in a cat who's declawed.

00:13:51.466 --> 00:13:56.506
Linda Hall: B, and do you think declawed cats have problems with ghost pains afterward?

00:13:56.866 --> 00:13:57.266
Daniel Fissel: Yeah.

00:13:57.446 --> 00:14:03.406
Daniel Fissel: And it's definitely something that's been talked about a lot in the vet industry.

00:14:03.426 --> 00:14:07.146
Daniel Fissel: And that's why most places nowadays will not declaw.

00:14:07.406 --> 00:14:15.186
Daniel Fissel: I'm really happy to say that I work for, you know, I worked for a company that has decided not to declaw.

00:14:15.346 --> 00:14:16.626
Daniel Fissel: Thank heavens.

00:14:16.646 --> 00:14:17.846
Daniel Fissel: It's really great.

00:14:17.886 --> 00:14:20.766
Daniel Fissel: If I go to a hospital nowadays, I do relief work.

00:14:20.786 --> 00:14:22.926
Daniel Fissel: So I jump around hospital to hospital.

00:14:23.126 --> 00:14:30.906
Daniel Fissel: But if I go to a hospital, and luckily I haven't gone to one yet, that does, you know, declaws anymore or things like that.

00:14:30.926 --> 00:14:35.066
Daniel Fissel: But if I were to go to one, I don't think that I would be going back since I have the choice.

00:14:36.746 --> 00:14:38.106
Linda Hall: I've been dying to ask that.

00:14:38.126 --> 00:14:45.246
Linda Hall: I had told Rita she's got her three-legged cat and bad weather, Smoochie tends to do things that we don't like as much.

00:14:45.926 --> 00:14:55.406
Linda Hall: And I have had a diabetic son-in-law who had to have his toes amputated all the way down years ago from diabetes.

00:14:56.346 --> 00:14:59.966
Linda Hall: And he had horrendous ghost pains.

00:14:59.966 --> 00:15:03.146
Linda Hall: And this was a very strong, typical tough dude doesn't complain.

00:15:03.366 --> 00:15:08.766
Linda Hall: He'd see this look on his face and he'd say, my toes are burning and the toes that don't exist.

00:15:08.786 --> 00:15:13.526
Linda Hall: And I was like, Rita, I wonder if Smoochie is feeling that?

00:15:13.826 --> 00:15:14.546
Rita Reimers: I think so.

00:15:14.566 --> 00:15:15.326
Rita Reimers: I think she is.

00:15:15.346 --> 00:15:21.586
Rita Reimers: Cause even if I touch where her leg, you know, where the joint is, where the leg used to be, sometimes she's okay with it.

00:15:21.606 --> 00:15:23.266
Rita Reimers: Sometimes she winces a little bit.

00:15:23.406 --> 00:15:23.726
Dr. Rachel Geller: Yeah.

00:15:23.746 --> 00:15:26.086
Dr. Rachel Geller: And all of that pain definitely affects behavior.

00:15:26.106 --> 00:15:28.346
Dr. Rachel Geller: So it really can all be intertwined.

00:15:28.546 --> 00:15:30.726
Rita Reimers: She's my only cat that barks, by the way.

00:15:31.386 --> 00:15:32.826
Rita Reimers: This is very strange.

00:15:32.946 --> 00:15:33.626
Rita Reimers: She's a strange cat.

00:15:33.646 --> 00:15:36.326
Dr. Rachel Geller: It's interesting too about cats with amputations.

00:15:36.326 --> 00:15:38.346
Dr. Rachel Geller: Cause some, you know, it really affects them.

00:15:38.366 --> 00:15:40.406
Dr. Rachel Geller: And you can tell they need to get used to it.

00:15:40.426 --> 00:15:43.086
Dr. Rachel Geller: And other cats are like, oh, I don't have a leg anymore.

00:15:43.106 --> 00:15:43.746
Dr. Rachel Geller: When's lunch?

00:15:43.746 --> 00:15:45.746
Linda Hall: It's like, oh, exactly, exactly.

00:15:45.766 --> 00:15:51.266
Rita Reimers: Smoochie's like that most of the time, but as she's gotten older, she's about eight or nine now.

00:15:51.366 --> 00:15:52.106
Rita Reimers: I've lost track.

00:15:52.726 --> 00:15:57.766
Rita Reimers: I do notice she gets grumpier more and she's got less patience with some of the other kitties as well.

00:15:58.026 --> 00:15:59.106
Dr. Rachel Geller: That happens with us too.

00:16:00.706 --> 00:16:07.846
Linda Hall: I know that if you have, for example, a human breaks their ankle, it's more likely that they'll get arthritis in that area.

00:16:07.986 --> 00:16:11.166
Linda Hall: Is that something that is common to happen in cats, Dan?

00:16:11.406 --> 00:16:13.006
Daniel Fissel: Yeah, it definitely is.

00:16:13.026 --> 00:16:17.946
Daniel Fissel: And it's something that has also been talked about a lot in the field.

00:16:17.946 --> 00:16:34.606
Daniel Fissel: And so we're luckily, not that it's ever luckily towards the end of cat lives or anything like that, but we're luckily towards the end of seeing those cats coming in to the hospital, because it's been almost 20 years since some of these places have been making these directives, which is really nice.

00:16:34.726 --> 00:16:40.426
Daniel Fissel: Not everyone has sometimes, like, you know, catch up with the times, but it's really great.

00:16:40.646 --> 00:16:47.686
Daniel Fissel: We're not seeing as many cats coming in that it's like, oh, they were de-clawed out of the kitten or things like that.

00:16:47.706 --> 00:16:48.866
Linda Hall: So now they're going to have problems.

00:16:48.866 --> 00:16:49.926
Linda Hall: And what an awful place.

00:16:50.026 --> 00:16:51.046
Rita Reimers: I have one to claw.

00:16:51.066 --> 00:16:53.066
Linda Hall: Literally walking on this, right?

00:16:53.346 --> 00:16:54.846
Rita Reimers: Sakura came to us to claw.

00:16:54.866 --> 00:16:55.606
Linda Hall: Oh, that's right.

00:16:55.666 --> 00:16:57.406
Linda Hall: I was like, ooh, oh yeah, I knew that.

00:16:58.186 --> 00:16:59.066
Rita Reimers: Sakura's cool.

00:16:59.086 --> 00:16:59.646
Rita Reimers: It's cool, Cat.

00:16:59.666 --> 00:17:01.166
Linda Hall: There's 30 of them all together.

00:17:01.186 --> 00:17:02.166
Linda Hall: I can't keep tabs.

00:17:02.486 --> 00:17:04.426
Rita Reimers: We have to take a little break right here.

00:17:04.446 --> 00:17:05.546
Rita Reimers: I've got that 30 number.

00:17:05.566 --> 00:17:07.906
Rita Reimers: Yes, I am back to 19 Cats and Counting.

00:17:08.366 --> 00:17:11.786
Rita Reimers: Almost was 20 today, but I just had to say no.

00:17:11.806 --> 00:17:13.766
Rita Reimers: I just can't take in anymore.

00:17:14.006 --> 00:17:20.166
Rita Reimers: But anyway, we'll be right back after this break and we'll talk more about behavior versus medical issues in Cats.

00:17:20.186 --> 00:17:20.926
Rita Reimers: We'll be right back.

00:17:23.526 --> 00:17:25.166
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00:17:29.766 --> 00:17:31.866
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00:18:03.946 --> 00:18:05.806
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00:18:18.406 --> 00:18:19.406
Announcer: Pet Life Radio.

00:18:29.733 --> 00:18:41.333
Rita Reimers: And we're back with 19 Cats and Counting, and my awesome BFF, ride or die, Linda Hall, the pawsome, Rachel Geller, who right now, if you go to Amazon and buy her books, she's doing a fundraiser.

00:18:41.853 --> 00:18:45.733
Rita Reimers: All proceeds go directly to our Carolina Cat Sanctuary.

00:18:46.293 --> 00:18:51.333
Rita Reimers: And Dan the possum, vet tech, who takes care of Dr.

00:18:51.353 --> 00:18:52.953
Rita Reimers: Rachel's own cats, by the way.

00:18:53.133 --> 00:19:01.493
Rita Reimers: And we're talking about behavioral issues versus medical issues that are causing behavioral problems and where the line intersects, because sometimes there isn't intersect.

00:19:01.773 --> 00:19:02.113
Linda Hall: Yeah.

00:19:02.113 --> 00:19:04.613
Linda Hall: So I think we covered the litter box issues.

00:19:04.973 --> 00:19:05.953
Linda Hall: What else Dr.

00:19:05.973 --> 00:19:08.173
Linda Hall: Rachel comes to mind that could go either way?

00:19:08.433 --> 00:19:12.133
Dr. Rachel Geller: Well, I think the other thing that I see a lot is cats who are acting aggressively.

00:19:12.413 --> 00:19:17.513
Dr. Rachel Geller: And somebody will say to me, out of nowhere, you know, for no reason, my cat-

00:19:17.533 --> 00:19:19.813
Rita Reimers: Never out of nowhere, never no reason, right?

00:19:20.113 --> 00:19:21.393
Dr. Rachel Geller: There's always a reason.

00:19:21.573 --> 00:19:24.553
Dr. Rachel Geller: But when there's a behavior change, it's very abrupt.

00:19:24.893 --> 00:19:31.573
Dr. Rachel Geller: Usually, chances are that cat may be experiencing some type of pain or there's something going on.

00:19:31.793 --> 00:19:34.953
Dr. Rachel Geller: And there is a phenomenon known as pain-induced aggression.

00:19:35.553 --> 00:19:39.133
Dr. Rachel Geller: And cats can't get to the source of what's bothering them.

00:19:39.353 --> 00:19:40.513
Dr. Rachel Geller: They don't understand.

00:19:40.873 --> 00:19:44.873
Dr. Rachel Geller: And so they take it out on whoever's nearby.

00:19:44.893 --> 00:19:48.993
Dr. Rachel Geller: And usually that's a human or a companion cat in the household.

00:19:49.453 --> 00:19:54.473
Linda Hall: So behaviorally, this could be, I'm still scared of that cat, whatever.

00:19:54.493 --> 00:19:57.393
Linda Hall: But medically, it could be a pain issue.

00:19:57.533 --> 00:20:02.853
Linda Hall: What kind of pain issues do you see often that people are missing out on like that?

00:20:02.873 --> 00:20:05.213
Linda Hall: That, oh, there's something behind this, Dan.

00:20:05.393 --> 00:20:12.653
Daniel Fissel: Yeah, I'd say the two most common kind of pain things that we see are, you know, under-diagnosed pain in cats.

00:20:12.673 --> 00:20:19.733
Daniel Fissel: Because cats are so good at hiding their pain that you don't really know and they don't tell you until it's a lot of pain.

00:20:19.973 --> 00:20:26.193
Daniel Fissel: But the two would most likely be dental pain and then arthritis, osteoarthritis in cats.

00:20:26.313 --> 00:20:30.633
Daniel Fissel: Because all of those things are going to affect their normal day-to-day habits.

00:20:30.653 --> 00:20:39.153
Daniel Fissel: And chronic, chronic daily pain, even in people, just makes you tense, makes you stressed, makes you lash out a little bit more.

00:20:39.333 --> 00:20:47.393
Daniel Fissel: And then I've seen so many cats that come in for their dental procedure that the owners were like, oh, you know, my cat's been doing this and that.

00:20:47.413 --> 00:20:50.913
Daniel Fissel: You know, they've been kind of not wanting me to pet them anymore.

00:20:50.933 --> 00:20:57.593
Daniel Fissel: They squat at me sometimes when I'm trying to just scratch their head, which is where I always scratch her under their chin.

00:20:57.613 --> 00:21:05.073
Daniel Fissel: And little do they know, there's, you know, a little tooth root at the down here or something along that line, you know, causing some pain.

00:21:05.993 --> 00:21:12.613
Daniel Fissel: They resorptive lesions in cats is really common, which is where their tooth root is literally just eating away at itself.

00:21:12.893 --> 00:21:16.073
Rita Reimers: I see a lot of cats don't get regular routine vet visits.

00:21:16.073 --> 00:21:21.713
Rita Reimers: So those pain issues in the mouth, the teeth, that festers for quite a while.

00:21:21.733 --> 00:21:25.953
Rita Reimers: And often cats end up having their teeth removed because they haven't had that regular care.

00:21:25.973 --> 00:21:26.453
Rita Reimers: Is that right?

00:21:26.753 --> 00:21:28.213
Daniel Fissel: Yep, yep, that's very right.

00:21:28.233 --> 00:21:32.073
Daniel Fissel: And a lot of people get, you know, concerned that their cat's teeth need to be removed.

00:21:32.073 --> 00:21:45.793
Daniel Fissel: And I've met plenty of cats where, especially where, you know, as a kitten, if they have like stomatitis from having like Khaleesi virus or something as a kitten, we've done full mouth extractions when they've been under a year old and they live normal, happy lives.

00:21:45.913 --> 00:21:50.413
Daniel Fissel: They just, a lot of cats don't even actually chew their food unless it's too big for them.

00:21:50.433 --> 00:21:52.993
Dr. Rachel Geller: Yeah, they'll tend to inhale it.

00:21:53.053 --> 00:21:53.453
Dr. Rachel Geller: Yes.

00:21:53.873 --> 00:21:55.673
Rita Reimers: Your FIV cat, what has he got?

00:21:55.693 --> 00:21:56.593
Rita Reimers: Like one tooth left?

00:21:56.613 --> 00:21:57.713
Linda Hall: Yeah, stomatitis.

00:21:57.733 --> 00:22:02.953
Linda Hall: Yeah, I think he's got like two teeth left, which actually really irritated me because he had dental surgery and he had a bunch of teeth removed.

00:22:02.973 --> 00:22:06.393
Linda Hall: And then I brought him in for scaling and polishing and they said, we need to take out more teeth.

00:22:06.633 --> 00:22:08.453
Linda Hall: He's got like two or three teeth left.

00:22:08.473 --> 00:22:09.773
Linda Hall: I was like, why in the world?

00:22:10.053 --> 00:22:10.633
Linda Hall: Why?

00:22:10.773 --> 00:22:12.973
Linda Hall: What good are those two teeth doing?

00:22:13.253 --> 00:22:21.133
Linda Hall: Just, so we do give him some extra wet food because my cats get two wet food meals a day and then they get a little dry during the day.

00:22:21.153 --> 00:22:21.733
Linda Hall: Don't tell anybody.

00:22:22.293 --> 00:22:29.453
Linda Hall: And so Kismet, yeah, he doesn't see, I have caught him once in a while picking at the dry food, but he can't eat much of it.

00:22:29.453 --> 00:22:33.993
Linda Hall: So he gets a third wet meal every day, but you know, yeah, it hasn't really caused problems.

00:22:34.273 --> 00:22:37.333
Linda Hall: Sometimes his lip gets stuck on his gum and he looks like Elvis.

00:22:37.353 --> 00:22:38.173
Linda Hall: Thank you very much.

00:22:38.213 --> 00:22:41.133
Linda Hall: It's really cute, but no actual problems.

00:22:42.173 --> 00:22:42.973
Linda Hall: Just get rid of them.

00:22:42.993 --> 00:22:47.493
Dr. Rachel Geller: And they feel so much better, you know, when their teeth are diseased and that pain.

00:22:47.733 --> 00:22:51.773
Dr. Rachel Geller: And then as Dan said, you know, they're just feeling pain all the time.

00:22:51.793 --> 00:22:59.693
Dr. Rachel Geller: And so when you're up to here all the time in pain, the least little thing, even if it's something that we think is pleasurable, can really put that cat over the edge.

00:22:59.713 --> 00:23:01.353
Dr. Rachel Geller: So, you know, we remove that pain.

00:23:01.493 --> 00:23:04.633
Linda Hall: If anybody out there has never had a toothache, God bless you.

00:23:04.713 --> 00:23:07.973
Linda Hall: Like you want to stay home and go to bed, but it's not really something allowable, right?

00:23:08.013 --> 00:23:10.033
Linda Hall: It's that bad of a day.

00:23:10.053 --> 00:23:11.993
Rita Reimers: You were down here with a toothache.

00:23:12.013 --> 00:23:13.033
Rita Reimers: I remember that visit.

00:23:13.053 --> 00:23:16.033
Linda Hall: Yes, I had just had one removed and it was hurting.

00:23:16.053 --> 00:23:17.673
Linda Hall: And yeah, I was miserable.

00:23:17.813 --> 00:23:24.973
Linda Hall: So yes, if they do not get the teeth removed, Dan, other than pain, can this lead to other medical issues?

00:23:25.393 --> 00:23:26.133
Daniel Fissel: These infected?

00:23:26.153 --> 00:23:36.473
Daniel Fissel: Yeah, there's a lot of things out there indicating, you know, just like with people, when you're sitting there at the dentist, that, you know, they have their screen telling you all about how it'll affect your heart.

00:23:36.473 --> 00:23:39.353
Daniel Fissel: It'll affect all of these other, you know, organs as well.

00:23:39.693 --> 00:23:52.613
Daniel Fissel: Even just aspirating that bacteria, you know, if your mouth is full of bacteria and you're breathing through that bacteria, what happens when you accidentally, you know, you say, oh, my spit went down the wrong hole.

00:23:52.633 --> 00:23:55.133
Daniel Fissel: Well, what happens when that spit is full of bacteria?

00:23:55.413 --> 00:23:55.933
Daniel Fissel: You know?

00:23:56.193 --> 00:24:01.393
Rita Reimers: Right, yeah, isn't it true that in people that that can cause heart disease?

00:24:01.413 --> 00:24:03.373
Rita Reimers: Is that, I'm remembering that, right?

00:24:03.493 --> 00:24:05.553
Rita Reimers: Is that the same with cats if they don't have those?

00:24:06.133 --> 00:24:09.753
Daniel Fissel: Yeah, it is, because the bacteria gets into the bloodstream as well.

00:24:09.773 --> 00:24:15.853
Daniel Fissel: And even from something like aspirating or whatnot, you just have a constant source of infection in the mouth.

00:24:15.873 --> 00:24:22.353
Daniel Fissel: So that's going to be bacteria and blood kind of able to mix right there, which is never a good thing.

00:24:24.253 --> 00:24:25.213
Linda Hall: I'd be mean to.

00:24:25.213 --> 00:24:26.013
Rita Reimers: I'd be mean to.

00:24:26.033 --> 00:24:29.393
Rita Reimers: I wouldn't want another, if I was a cat, I wouldn't want another cat bothering me.

00:24:29.553 --> 00:24:39.493
Daniel Fissel: The cats can still be eating well, even with this dental disease, because as Rachel was mentioning earlier, the cats, they don't want to show pain.

00:24:39.513 --> 00:24:42.873
Daniel Fissel: They don't want to be seen as weak.

00:24:42.873 --> 00:24:49.153
Daniel Fissel: So the cats are often still going and eating and people are like, oh, I'm gonna push off the dental procedure.

00:24:49.653 --> 00:24:54.093
Daniel Fissel: The vet recommended that there might be extraction, but I'm gonna push it off because the cat's still doing great.

00:24:54.213 --> 00:24:54.733
Linda Hall: The cat's fine.

00:24:54.753 --> 00:25:02.093
Rita Reimers: Did you wanna just say, wait a minute, let me smack you in the mouth and see if you feel like eating?

00:25:02.113 --> 00:25:05.453
Daniel Fissel: Emergencies are way worse than just regular dental pain.

00:25:06.413 --> 00:25:08.953
Linda Hall: Good point, yeah, let it go, go ahead.

00:25:08.973 --> 00:25:12.713
Linda Hall: Pay that bill and see how that goes as we fight to save your cat's life.

00:25:12.733 --> 00:25:14.293
Linda Hall: Go ahead, save that money.

00:25:14.313 --> 00:25:17.753
Rita Reimers: What about neurological issues in cats and behavior?

00:25:17.893 --> 00:25:20.133
Daniel Fissel: Right under the eyeballs as well.

00:25:20.153 --> 00:25:33.193
Daniel Fissel: So like when they do get an abscess under the little root, it can affect their eyes, it can affect their sinuses because they have such tiny, cute little noses, and the teeth, the teeth roots are right next to that too.

00:25:33.193 --> 00:25:36.113
Rita Reimers: And especially if you're talking about a Persian with a flat nose.

00:25:37.853 --> 00:25:39.793
Rita Reimers: Well, what about neurological issues?

00:25:39.973 --> 00:25:48.773
Rita Reimers: We don't see a lot of that, but I've had cats with neurological issues and it often does affect behavior sometimes to the aggressive side.

00:25:49.353 --> 00:25:56.813
Rita Reimers: Are there good treatments for cats that have some neurological issues for keeping them calmer and helping them get along with other cats in the household?

00:25:57.033 --> 00:26:04.033
Daniel Fissel: There are medications that some vets will use if you're talking about anxiety or things like that.

00:26:04.233 --> 00:26:09.593
Daniel Fissel: And depending on the type of neurologic issue, it'll all depend.

00:26:09.613 --> 00:26:16.613
Daniel Fissel: If it's something like a brain tumor, then that's something that might require radiation or something like that, some bigger therapy.

00:26:16.633 --> 00:26:32.513
Daniel Fissel: But if it's just more of like a anxiety type neurologic issue, then often that can be helped with medications if the other tips and tricks, this is where I would definitely try and work hand in hand with behaviorists like Dr.

00:26:32.753 --> 00:26:33.713
Daniel Fissel: Rachel.

00:26:33.733 --> 00:26:42.993
Dr. Rachel Geller: Right, because even if you've determined that your cat has anxiety, and I just want to say that I have no problem giving a cat anti-anxiety medication.

00:26:43.013 --> 00:26:49.073
Dr. Rachel Geller: I think we are so fortunate that we live in a time that we've discovered that this helps not only people, but our cats.

00:26:49.293 --> 00:26:58.633
Dr. Rachel Geller: And if a person was struggling with mental health issues or anxiety, we would not hesitate to suggest medication if we thought that that would be helpful for that person.

00:26:58.913 --> 00:27:00.773
Dr. Rachel Geller: They feel the same way with our cats.

00:27:00.913 --> 00:27:08.713
Dr. Rachel Geller: But having said that, you were never going to give a cat a pill, and the behavior problem is going to go away and be immediately resolved.

00:27:08.953 --> 00:27:19.593
Dr. Rachel Geller: The medication will resolve that emotional piece, that anxiety piece for the cat, but you still need to follow the behavior plan that has been written out for your cat.

00:27:19.993 --> 00:27:21.093
Rita Reimers: Absolutely.

00:27:21.113 --> 00:27:30.393
Rita Reimers: It seems like all vets want to go right to Prozac, which I don't know if that's always the best choice, but it seems Prozac and PhilAware are the two things vets seem to go right to.

00:27:30.873 --> 00:27:31.573
Rita Reimers: Why is that?

00:27:31.693 --> 00:27:32.053
Rita Reimers: Why?

00:27:32.073 --> 00:27:32.893
Rita Reimers: Why Prozac?

00:27:33.213 --> 00:27:33.613
Rita Reimers: Dan?

00:27:33.833 --> 00:27:38.913
Daniel Fissel: It's just there aren't very many things, unfortunately, that have been studied with the cats, you know?

00:27:38.993 --> 00:27:42.733
Daniel Fissel: So that's one that has been used for quite a while.

00:27:42.813 --> 00:27:50.213
Daniel Fissel: So there's a lot of anecdotal evidence, you know, that's shared around through the industry, and it works really, to work really well.

00:27:50.233 --> 00:28:02.113
Daniel Fissel: They have such sensitive kidneys and livers that they can't really handle some of those other bigger drugs for long-term use because, you know, I always tell people cats are aliens, you know?

00:28:02.433 --> 00:28:04.713
Daniel Fissel: They were put on, and I love them so much.

00:28:04.733 --> 00:28:09.593
Daniel Fissel: I've also said that I'm glad we're in the timeline that cats are, you know, our friends.

00:28:10.253 --> 00:28:18.553
Rita Reimers: I know, I had a vet years ago that told me, you're learning all these things in medical school, and it goes, this goes for all animals, except cats.

00:28:18.573 --> 00:28:18.953
Linda Hall: Except cats.

00:28:18.973 --> 00:28:20.433
Rita Reimers: Because cats are so different.

00:28:21.073 --> 00:28:22.313
Daniel Fissel: Yes, that's true.

00:28:22.333 --> 00:28:36.253
Daniel Fissel: When I was in pharmacology class, almost there were so many drugs that we had to learn, I would never be able to list them all, but there were so many things that in the contraindication column, cats, cats, cats.

00:28:36.553 --> 00:28:38.213
Linda Hall: Exactly, exactly.

00:28:38.353 --> 00:28:39.773
Rita Reimers: That's why we love them, though.

00:28:39.933 --> 00:28:45.533
Linda Hall: My problem, and I want to get both your takes on this, my problem with, let's say Prozac.

00:28:46.413 --> 00:28:50.093
Linda Hall: It can take up to eight weeks to build up in your system.

00:28:50.673 --> 00:28:54.133
Linda Hall: So you're going to wait two months and then you're going to say, oh, it's really not doing it now.

00:28:54.153 --> 00:28:55.373
Linda Hall: We need to play with it, blah, blah, blah.

00:28:55.393 --> 00:28:56.853
Linda Hall: Okay, this isn't the right medication.

00:28:56.873 --> 00:28:58.433
Linda Hall: Now we have to tie trade off.

00:28:58.653 --> 00:29:01.433
Linda Hall: And so often it's a temporary issue.

00:29:01.613 --> 00:29:04.253
Linda Hall: I'm mad because you brought a new cat in and I'm scared to death of them.

00:29:04.433 --> 00:29:06.233
Linda Hall: There are ferals, whatever.

00:29:06.533 --> 00:29:16.113
Linda Hall: That I'm not playing around with a drug for three months when I tackle this, they would end up surrendering the cat long before they even tie trade it all the way up.

00:29:16.313 --> 00:29:17.453
Dr. Rachel Geller: Well, I think that's a good point.

00:29:17.473 --> 00:29:26.713
Daniel Fissel: I don't know how often I give out Rachel's website because I'm like, you know, while we're doing this, you should email Dr.

00:29:26.733 --> 00:29:29.093
Daniel Fissel: Rachel because she does free consults.

00:29:29.113 --> 00:29:30.793
Daniel Fissel: She just wants you to keep your cat in your home.

00:29:30.793 --> 00:29:32.373
Daniel Fissel: Please, please email her.

00:29:32.973 --> 00:29:34.013
Dr. Rachel Geller: I'm happy you do that.

00:29:34.033 --> 00:29:34.893
Dr. Rachel Geller: I'm happy to help.

00:29:34.893 --> 00:29:48.153
Dr. Rachel Geller: And to Linda's point, I do think those types of medications are really only good if it's been diagnosed as a chronic anxiety problem and ongoing kind of constitutional issue with the cat.

00:29:48.173 --> 00:29:57.553
Dr. Rachel Geller: You know, this cat does have diagnosed anxiety rather than we can pinpoint, there's a new baby, there's been a change, you know, that type of thing.

00:29:57.873 --> 00:29:59.013
Dr. Rachel Geller: Absolutely.

00:29:59.033 --> 00:30:03.313
Daniel Fissel: And some people use certain things for, you know, just for stressful events.

00:30:03.533 --> 00:30:05.733
Daniel Fissel: Like, if you don't mind me sharing Dr.

00:30:05.753 --> 00:30:06.693
Daniel Fissel: Rachel's stuff.

00:30:07.813 --> 00:30:08.813
Daniel Fissel: Like one of Dr.

00:30:08.833 --> 00:30:14.813
Daniel Fissel: Rachel's cats, you know, comes in for some sanitary shaves and some nail trims and she doesn't like it.

00:30:14.833 --> 00:30:16.253
Daniel Fissel: You know, the cat doesn't like it.

00:30:16.293 --> 00:30:23.093
Daniel Fissel: And I don't take offense that she doesn't love to come see me, but she needs a little bit of GAVA pencin on board.

00:30:23.213 --> 00:30:24.293
Daniel Fissel: And it works wonders.

00:30:24.573 --> 00:30:25.533
Rita Reimers: We love GAVA.

00:30:25.653 --> 00:30:27.713
Rita Reimers: We love GAVA for the short term.

00:30:27.913 --> 00:30:33.133
Daniel Fissel: Really wrap her in a little burrito and then I can do most of it on my own normally, which is, which is great.

00:30:35.133 --> 00:30:39.013
Dr. Rachel Geller: She is a lovely cat, but she does turn into Cujo when it's time to go see Dan.

00:30:39.033 --> 00:30:41.013
Linda Hall: It's hairy, exactly.

00:30:41.033 --> 00:30:41.853
Rita Reimers: I'm very lucky.

00:30:41.873 --> 00:30:44.133
Rita Reimers: I don't have any current Cujo cats.

00:30:44.153 --> 00:30:53.173
Rita Reimers: I have had them in the past, but most of my cats really love my vet and love the vet techs because they get treated extra special and they give them little treats and things.

00:30:53.273 --> 00:30:56.093
Dr. Rachel Geller: And GAVA pencin is very easily compounded.

00:30:56.293 --> 00:30:59.313
Dr. Rachel Geller: You don't need to, you know, pill the cat.

00:30:59.333 --> 00:31:01.953
Dr. Rachel Geller: You can get it compounded into a tasty treat.

00:31:02.373 --> 00:31:05.793
Dr. Rachel Geller: So for people who are afraid, you know, oh, I could never do that.

00:31:05.813 --> 00:31:06.833
Dr. Rachel Geller: I can't pill my cat.

00:31:06.853 --> 00:31:08.833
Dr. Rachel Geller: You know, you can get it compounded.

00:31:09.053 --> 00:31:19.033
Dr. Rachel Geller: There are some compounders that offer menus that have so many delicious combinations of food that sometimes I'm tempted to order it for myself.

00:31:19.033 --> 00:31:24.633
Dr. Rachel Geller: I mean, like chicken and turkey fricassee and all of these delightful sounding.

00:31:25.093 --> 00:31:28.673
Daniel Fissel: Right, it comes in vanilla, marshmallow, like there's.

00:31:28.693 --> 00:31:29.773
Dr. Rachel Geller: Right, right, right.

00:31:30.673 --> 00:31:36.053
Dr. Rachel Geller: There's a transdermal option where you can just rub the medication onto your cat's ear, you know.

00:31:36.073 --> 00:31:37.833
Dr. Rachel Geller: So there are so many options.

00:31:37.853 --> 00:31:45.413
Dr. Rachel Geller: So if you're out there and you're listening and you think, oh, I can't pill my cat, talk to your vet, because there are many, many options available.

00:31:45.433 --> 00:31:50.813
Linda Hall: I'm so glad you said that because we've had, we just had somebody like last week that was like, well, they put it around, blah, blah, blah.

00:31:50.993 --> 00:31:51.653
Linda Hall: How's it going?

00:31:51.673 --> 00:31:52.693
Linda Hall: Are you seeing any improvement?

00:31:53.113 --> 00:31:54.673
Linda Hall: I can't give that cat that pill.

00:31:54.673 --> 00:31:58.693
Linda Hall: And now the cat hates me and the cat is running from me and we've got a horrible relationship.

00:31:58.713 --> 00:31:59.613
Linda Hall: I said, forget it.

00:31:59.633 --> 00:32:00.673
Rita Reimers: It was the GABA.

00:32:00.673 --> 00:32:05.693
Rita Reimers: And remember, I sent them the link to show them, show your vet that you can get that in a transdermal.

00:32:05.793 --> 00:32:11.593
Dr. Rachel Geller: And you know, a lot of cats can detect it in the food too, you know, and then forget it, you know, once they get that taste.

00:32:11.613 --> 00:32:18.513
Rita Reimers: My 19 year old Missy, as old as she is, and as much as her sniffers off, if I put anything in her food like that, she knows it.

00:32:18.693 --> 00:32:20.573
Dr. Rachel Geller: They do, they sniff it and they walk away.

00:32:20.793 --> 00:32:21.153
Dr. Rachel Geller: Yes.

00:32:21.373 --> 00:32:24.973
Linda Hall: Well, and I like Gabba Petten because you don't have to titrate up and titrate down.

00:32:25.213 --> 00:32:25.893
Dr. Rachel Geller: Exactly.

00:32:25.953 --> 00:32:29.873
Linda Hall: I told somebody the other day, it's like a Tylenol, take it, it does its job, it goes, right?

00:32:30.293 --> 00:32:33.893
Linda Hall: My parents used Gabba and their cat to go to Florida and back every year.

00:32:33.913 --> 00:32:37.793
Linda Hall: So yeah, four days a year, Jazzy was on Gabba.

00:32:37.993 --> 00:32:39.853
Rita Reimers: We need to unfortunately wrap.

00:32:40.053 --> 00:32:42.753
Rita Reimers: I hate it because we could probably talk about this for another hour.

00:32:43.253 --> 00:32:45.493
Rita Reimers: But are there any last thoughts, Dr.

00:32:45.513 --> 00:32:48.713
Rita Reimers: Rachel and Dan, that you would like to leave our listeners with?

00:32:49.033 --> 00:32:55.453
Dr. Rachel Geller: I would just say that if you are having a cat behavior problem, use your best judgment on whether to rule out medical first.

00:32:55.753 --> 00:33:06.893
Dr. Rachel Geller: If you can identify a trigger or a change or a stressor in your cat's environment, look at that first because you definitely don't want to stress out your cat even more with an unnecessary veterinarian trip.

00:33:06.973 --> 00:33:17.433
Dr. Rachel Geller: But by the same token, if the behavior change is abrupt, if it's sudden, if nothing seems to be helping and maybe it's even getting worse, then it's definitely time to bring your cat in to see your vet.

00:33:17.633 --> 00:33:18.693
Rita Reimers: So, right.

00:33:18.693 --> 00:33:20.313
Rita Reimers: And Dan, any last words for us?

00:33:20.653 --> 00:33:22.493
Daniel Fissel: Just want to thank you guys for having me on.

00:33:22.513 --> 00:33:32.773
Daniel Fissel: But yeah, I would agree that I like just working hand in hand with you guys, you know, behaviorists and veterinarians to try and help keep all the cats where they should be happy and healthy.

00:33:32.953 --> 00:33:34.813
Rita Reimers: Linda and I always say it takes a village.

00:33:35.493 --> 00:33:36.333
Linda Hall: It does.

00:33:36.333 --> 00:33:37.893
Linda Hall: Yes, exactly.

00:33:38.893 --> 00:33:41.273
Rita Reimers: Well, I would like to thank you both for being on our show.

00:33:41.293 --> 00:33:44.793
Rita Reimers: And I hope you come back because I know there's even more we could talk about together.

00:33:45.413 --> 00:33:54.733
Rita Reimers: Linda, my best friend, forever and ever, who makes everything possible because she's just so wonderful and sparkly.

00:33:54.933 --> 00:33:57.853
Rita Reimers: She's got all those qualities I don't have because I'm shy.

00:33:57.933 --> 00:33:58.893
Rita Reimers: Yes, I'm shy.

00:34:01.153 --> 00:34:06.393
Rita Reimers: And of course, I'd be remiss if I didn't thank Mark Winchert for giving us this awesome spot on Pet Life Radio.

00:34:06.413 --> 00:34:08.013
Rita Reimers: We are forever in your debt.

00:34:08.413 --> 00:34:11.133
Rita Reimers: And just remember everyone, every day is Caturday.

00:34:11.393 --> 00:34:12.793
Rita Reimers: And we'll see you next time.

00:34:13.333 --> 00:34:19.313
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